firecat: red panda looking happy (Default)
[personal profile] firecat
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_20/b4228064581642.htm
Excerpt:
Go into the kitchen of a Taco Bell today, and you'll find a strong counterargument to any notion that the U.S. has lost its manufacturing edge. Every Taco Bell, McDonald's (MCD), Wendy's (WEN), and Burger King is a little factory, with a manager who oversees three dozen workers, devises schedules and shifts, keeps track of inventory and the supply chain, supervises an assembly line churning out a quality-controlled, high-volume product, and takes in revenue of $1 million to $3 million a year, all with customers who show up at the front end of the factory at all hours of the day to buy the product."
What's interesting about this story is the way it spins fast food work as something that takes skill. That's not how it's usually spun, but it makes sense to me.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/jul/01/harrods-dress-code-sales-assistant?cat=law&type=article
Sales associate quits Harrods over makeup requirement in dress code.

Have you ever quit a job or chosen not to pursue a job because of the required dress code? Or am I the only one?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jul/01/change-your-life-tempo-in-relationships
Differences in "personal tempos" as an explanation for relationship difficulties (via [personal profile] wordweaverlynn)

Date: 4 Jul 2011 09:55 pm (UTC)
bcholmes: (revolution)
From: [personal profile] bcholmes
I've chosen not to pursue jobs that have dress codes, but I haven't been in the position of quitting a job because of a dress code. I also thwart dress codes a lot. Like, there's a regular e-Health conference that I go to that is "business casual," and I keep wearing my typical hoodies and V-neck shirts.

I once interviewed with a U.S. company that told me during the interview process that if we got to the offer stage, they'd require a drug test -- if this sort of thing happens with IT jobs in Canada, I certainly haven't encountered it -- and I pondered long and hard about whether to just not go for any interviews, or to try to get to the offer stage, get the clean drug test, and then reject the job for being invasive.

Date: 5 Jul 2011 11:13 am (UTC)
kalmn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kalmn
early in my career i had a lot of requests for pre-employment drug tests. but i don't think i've had to take one in a decade.

i am about to have to figure out where to buy pants, though. business casual covers a large variety of sins, but i think my current employer is the only place where it covers blue jeans.

Date: 4 Jul 2011 11:04 pm (UTC)
ailbhe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ailbhe
I have not pursued all SORTS of jobs because of dress codes, and I have flouted dress codes and stood my ground while doing so, using words like "reasonable" and "sexist."

Date: 5 Jul 2011 12:12 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] flarenut
I've interviewed for a few jobs where I had serious questions about whether I would be able to take the job because of dress code or drug tests, but never got the offers, so nevermind.

I know that my pushing of the dress-code envelope on my last job was among the reasons they were just as happy as not to see the back of me.

Date: 5 Jul 2011 02:02 am (UTC)
laughingrat: A detail of leaping rats from an original movie poster for the first film of Nosferatu (Default)
From: [personal profile] laughingrat
*nods* Cooking and cleaning do take a lot of skill. I tried to work at Panera once. A vindictive (against whom, I wasn't sure--I'd been there all of two hours :)) co-worker threw me on sandwich assembly and refused to tell me what sandwiches were what and what went on them, and you better believe shit fell apart fast. There's a lot to know and a lot to do (and quickly) in food service, but it's knowledge and skills that are at the bottom of the value heap. Hmm.

Date: 5 Jul 2011 02:25 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] flarenut
Yep. It's skills that can be taught relatively quickly to some largish subset of people, but skills nonetheless. (And of course Ford's great innovation was dividing things up into skills that could be taught relatively quickly to some largish subset of people too.)

There's also a big difference between being able to do it and being able to do it really quickly and well, which is why different franchises of the same manufacturing operation get different reputations.

Date: 5 Jul 2011 03:18 am (UTC)
evilawyer: young black-tailed prairie dog at SF Zoo (Default)
From: [personal profile] evilawyer
A fast food worker (nor any restaurant worker, for that matter) can be neither lazy nor inattentive. It's the low pay that makes everyone think it's a job for boneheads. Not so. And not one, I'm not ashamed to admit, that I ever had or will have the patience to do.

Date: 5 Jul 2011 05:21 am (UTC)
chaos_by_design: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chaos_by_design
I've always found so-called "easy" jobs to be way harder than ones that required a college degree. I don't think on my feet well.

Date: 5 Jul 2011 05:26 am (UTC)
evilawyer: young black-tailed prairie dog at SF Zoo (Default)
From: [personal profile] evilawyer
Even if you do think well on your feet, it's one thing to do it for a specific period of time for a discrete goal, and another thing entirely to do it day after day after day after day....Not an easy thing.

Date: 5 Jul 2011 05:58 am (UTC)
amadi: A bouquet of dark purple roses (Default)
From: [personal profile] amadi
I was once fired because of dress code; the job required a uniform even though I had absolutely zero potential for public contact. (A long sexist and ridiculous story which should've thrown red flags from day one.) Their uniform supplier (which specialized in industrial wear, not office-suitable clothing and had no women's clothing only "unisex") was incapable of providing pants in my size; I purchased my own with approval of my boss (she looked at them online beforehand) and had them altered for length, but was told two weeks after I began wearing them that they were too dissimilar to the uniform supply company pants and the promised reimbursement for their purchase was withheld. I was told, however, that I had to continue to wear them with my supplied uniform shirts (instead of wearing my own professional attire or business casual attire to match the (male) managers khakis-and-golf-shirt aesthetic) until I found a better replacement.

When I noted for the record that I had relied upon my boss's approval, and was now more than $300 out of pocket because the pants were neither returnable nor really wearable in my everyday life, they shrugged. Not their problem. I was also made to look for replacements on my own time because I was not allowed to use the internet at work despite having access from my computer. After two weeks, I'd only found 4 potential pants, none of which were approved, and I was told my services were no longer needed.
Edited Date: 5 Jul 2011 05:59 am (UTC)

Date: 5 Jul 2011 07:26 am (UTC)
amadi: A bouquet of dark purple roses (Default)
From: [personal profile] amadi
As was the length of my comment. Sorry. :O

Date: 5 Jul 2011 04:31 pm (UTC)
adrian_turtle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] adrian_turtle
I'm really uncomfortable with the attempt to equate "manufacturing" with "efficient and competent." A service job can be done extraordinarily well, but it's still producing something ephemeral. Those Taco Bell meals that are made and delivered exactly to spec? They get eaten up in minutes. It's not like making and delivering a car, or even a cheap mass-produced desk lamp or hairbrush (just to mention examples I can see from here.) Yes, it's an economic problem that American manufacturing has gone downhill. An economy based on really good manufactured goods is more stable than one based on really good services, and more prosperous than one based on really good raw materials.

I don't like the propaganda that "manufacturing" in the modern, regimented, assembly-line style is good because it is difficult and requires skilled workers. The whole point of doing things that way is that it lets companies produce consistent output with *unskilled* workers. Applying that kind of process engineering to services might have been regarded as a new innovation 10 years ago (it got started in the 1990s, for a few services, and became widespread about 10 years ago.)

Both service and manufacturing industries involve unskilled, skilled, and highly-skilled jobs. How much workers are paid in different jobs is a matter of economic and social importance. So is the question of how easily they can move from one job to another. But comparing how much skill is intrinsically involved in the industry isn't really part of either kind of question. How profitable is the industry? How much bargaining power do workers have? How much is the industry willing to train workers? Those are the important questions, and praise of Taco Bell's assembly lines seem to distract from them.

Date: 5 Jul 2011 09:18 pm (UTC)
tiferet: cute girl in pink dress captioned "not all bad girls wear black" (Default)
From: [personal profile] tiferet
I don't think that it is wrong for employers to have dress codes, but I have certainly decided against working in places where the dress code was stupid. Requiring makeup or heels or the wearing of sheer hosiery through which the bare leg is visible (why?) all fall into that kind of category.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for employers to tell you you can't wear things that are unsafe in that environment--and I have a particular loathing for open-toed shoes on hospital staff, particularly in labs and patient care areas where it's just not safe. I think it's reasonable for retailers to want their staff to be identifiable in customer service areas (particularly stores), and to require you wear a certain colour of pants or skirt and/or a smock and nametag.

But if they insist on uniforms it's up to them to provide them in the size you need and at a reasonable price, and it's not right or acceptable for their dress code to mandate that you make permanent changes to your appearance (for instance, it's reasonable to say that due to safety/hygiene reasons, long hair must be out of the way and secured, but not to require you to cut it OFF especially not if this applies to only those who present as male.)

I do understand why some boutiques want you to dress in their clothing but again, this is not reasonable if they don't make it affordable and provide your size.

Date: 4 Jul 2011 08:45 pm (UTC)
ext_9215: (vulnerable)
From: [identity profile] hfnuala.livejournal.com
I won't wear make up at work[1] and avoid jobs where it is considered necessary to look 'professional' I have had shop jobs where I was supposed to wear it and just silently didn't. I wish they would make such requirements illegal.

[1] I will occasionally wear it when out but am just as likely to not bother. I am a shonky femme.

Date: 4 Jul 2011 09:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pameladean.livejournal.com
I have repeatedly turned down jobs that required makeup, high heels, skirts, or professionally-cut hair. I also left a job that was slowly, slowly tightening its dress code so that word processors would have to dress like secretaries. It was a law firm, where secretaries interacted with clients, and therefore had to look like Barbie dolls, but word processors were sequestered in a large back room and could dress as we liked. But at some point some high-up lawyer apparently became persuaded that clients would run wild, burst into the word processors' area, and faint dead away at the sight of unmadeup women in jeans typing up their bond agreements.

This was all quite a long time ago, but things don't seem to have gotten much saner in the corporate world overall.

P.

Date: 7 Jul 2011 10:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bibliofile.livejournal.com
In my experience, I don't do well at law firms or insurance companies, as they place far too much emphasis on things that have nothing to do with getting the job done. This sounds like one of those law firms.

I once interviewed for a bank teller position, where I was told that the (male) bank manager preferred that women didn't wear slacks. (I wore nice slacks to fill out the application and leave a resume.) I ended up working elsewhere, which was probably best for all concerned.

Date: 7 Jul 2011 04:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pameladean.livejournal.com
es, this was a big downtown law firm with lots of rich clients. I only took the job because the word processing pool had a fiercely protective supervisor -- she had to wear pantsuits and makeup -- who assured me that no lawyer would ever speak to me. If they had complaints, they would tell her and she would mete out jutice as necessary. They wer talking of changing that system, too.

My next job was with a firm of patent lawyers, and they were much better. You can't be too fanatical about dress codes when all your clients are coming in in overalls or torn T-shirts. There was evidence of some recent upheaval, because the dress code was this: "No Mickey Mouse sweatshirts, no jeans with holes in them, no sandals without hose or socks." But they were quite tolerable, those lawyers.

People who don't want women to wear pants are a real red flag, I agree. It's so very dumb and controlling and sexist.

P.

Date: 4 Jul 2011 09:32 pm (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
From: [personal profile] redbird
I haven't pursued jobs/areas that required high heels (or other uncomfortable shoes). And I don't do makeup (though I did let a friend convince me to wear lipstick for an interview once), which may have caused the interviewers to decide I wasn't the person they were looking for.

Date: 4 Jul 2011 09:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gridlore.livejournal.com
The thing about so-called "unskilled" jobs is this: although they may not require advanced training or schooling, there is a world of difference between grilling a few hamburgers for friends and family and working a grill with 30 orders backed up during a lunch rush. It really is like manufacturing, the worker needs to learn his station, his tools, and develop the comfort level to do his job instinctively.

Date: 4 Jul 2011 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pyrzqxgl.livejournal.com
I once got fired from a job (taking orders out to cars at a drive-in burger etc. place, speaking of fast food) for not wearing a bra, but it was a pretty terrible job anyway: The owners would badmouth the workers in general, and especially whoever had the smallest receipt tally at the end of the shift, but as the only way to increase your total was to grab the bigger orders off the counter before someone else could do it, it was definitely an attempt at a divide-and-conquer kind of thing.

I like the look of eyeliner but in my experience it and contact lenses do not play nicely together -- I have the idea of getting it tattooed on some day if I ever have lots of $$$
Edited Date: 4 Jul 2011 09:54 pm (UTC)

Date: 4 Jul 2011 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starcat-jewel.livejournal.com
I've never left (or failed to pursue) a job because of a dress code, but I can envision doing so, and "must wear a ton of makeup" would be pretty high on the list of reasons. As would "skirts, no pants" and "must wear high heels". Any of those things tell me that women are not valued at that company.

I have a pretty good idea of what "professional-looking dress" involves, and none of those items are necessary to achieve it... unless you're the kind of guy who thinks "professional appearance" means "looks like the evening news anchor in fuck-me shoes".

makeup and jobs

Date: 12 Jul 2011 01:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] innerdoggie.livejournal.com
When I was unemployed a couple of years ago, I went to several how-to-get-a-job workshops. We did talk about job interview clothes and I did ask whether I would have to learn about makeup. The workshop leaders said "makeup is a personal decision" and also that they mostly had to tell makeup-wearers to tone it down for job interviews.

I was prepared to wear makeup for a job interview, but would not like having to wear it for the job. I know nothing about makeup, so it would be a steep learning curve.

I feel somewhat like the woman in the article: if somebody is telling me I should wear makeup and that I'd look so much better if I did, I hear that as "you are ugly" and it hurts my feelings. I'd rather avoid the subject altogether.

I cope better with these appearance issues if I aim for "respectability" and "workplace safe" and not "beauty". Beauty is very fraught, but "workplace safe" is neutral.

So, I am shaving my legs in the summer so I can wear skirts and be "workplace safe". The fur will return in October.

Date: 12 Jul 2011 01:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] innerdoggie.livejournal.com
Tempo and relationships. My parents say this is one reason they divorced. "I was a turtle married to a racehorse!" But the article took tempo very literally!

I think of myself as a slow, lazy, pokey person (and I literally walk slowly), but if you set that metronome, I have no idea which tempo I'd pick!

Date: 12 Jul 2011 01:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] innerdoggie.livejournal.com
Tempo and relationships. My parents say this is one reason they divorced. "I'm was a turtle married to a racehorse!" But the article took tempo very literally!

I think of myself as a slow, lazy, pokey person (and I literally walk slowly), but if you set that metronome, I have no idea which tempo I'd pick!

dress code

Date: 16 Jul 2011 03:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selki.livejournal.com
I almost quit a job over it. Should have (warning sign of ridiculous priorities of new management).

Date: 18 Jul 2011 12:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moominmuppet.livejournal.com
I won't take a job that requires makeup, skirts, or heels.

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