gender-neutral second-person plurals

[firecat]

I left this datapoint in selki's journal. (She said that the word "guy" isn't "some sort of modern gender-neutral salutation". Let me be clear that I completely respect this viewpoint.)

"Guys" or "you guys" has a completely gender-neutral connotation to me...but only when used as a second-person plural pronoun, the same way people use "y'all" or "youse". It feels wrong to me to address or label a woman or girl as a "guy" or to say "Those guys over there" when referring to a mixed group or a group of women/girls. But I'll comfortably say "OK, you guys..." even to a group of all women.

This isn't modern; I've been doing it my whole life and I'm over 50. I grew up in Michigan; I wonder if this is a regional usage.

In contrast, "dude," "men," "mankind," and "he/him" have a male-only connotation to me, although I can hear other people use "dude" in a gender-neutral manner. (I can't do that with the other words.)

Thoughts? Datapoints?

I also use "y'all," "youse" (but they don't feel like "my language"; they feel like I'm stealing them from other people's language), "peeps," and "folks." ("Peeps" feels modern to me, and "folks" feels old-fashioned.)

Comments

[zillah975]

Hmm.

I use "y'all", but being Southern born and bred, it's natural to me. :) I use "guys" as largely gender neutral, but only use it when for whatever reason "y'all" doesn't work. And in the example above, instead of "those guys over there," I would probably say "those ones over there," though upon reflection I have no idea why, or "those folks over there."

"Dude," however, for me is used largely as an exclamation and is entirely gender-neutral -- "Dude! You totally just stole my drink!" or "Dude, don't buy that! I've got one I'll give you!"

(Only tangentially related, "buddy," "babe," and "sweetie" are also gender neutral for me, which I only really noticed when one of my male WoW guildies expressed some surprise at being called "sweetie". :)

And I accept "mankind" as typically intended to be gender neutral and it only makes me cringe a little bit, but I prefer "humankind."

I only use "peeps" with a small handful of close friends, 'cause it feels like stealing language the same way that it sounds like "y'all" feels to you.

[firecat]

Whose language does it feel like you're stealing when you use "peeps"?

[zillah975]

I'm honestly not sure. Folks a lot younger than me, I think? I just know it doesn't feel like mine.

[elainegrey]

I, too, am southern born and bread and "folks" feels quite comfortable to me: i use it often (and with multiple meanings). There's "my folks" which refer to my parents as well as the general "those folks over there." Y'all is also quite comfortable to me as second person plural.

"Peeps" definitely feels like it belongs to younger folks and to a sort of playful hip persona someone would put on, not to their natural state.

[firecat]

"Sweetie" is gender neutral for me; I use it to refer to my romantic partners, who are of various genders. "Buddy" connotes male to me. I think of "babe" as referring to a woman unless it's a form of address between people in a romantic relationship, in which case it can refer to any gender.

[johnpalmer]

Ah, yes - I knew there was a reason I thought of "dude" in the exclamatory sense :-). But I also use it to refer to a person, and when I do, it's always a guy.