firecat: damiel from wings of desire tasting blood on his fingers. text "i has a flavor!" (Default)
firecat (attention machine in need of calibration) ([personal profile] firecat) wrote2013-01-21 01:44 pm
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gender-neutral second-person plurals

I left this datapoint in [personal profile] selki's journal. (She said that the word "guy" isn't "some sort of modern gender-neutral salutation". Let me be clear that I completely respect this viewpoint.)
"Guys" or "you guys" has a completely gender-neutral connotation to me...but only when used as a second-person plural pronoun, the same way people use "y'all" or "youse". It feels wrong to me to address or label a woman or girl as a "guy" or to say "Those guys over there" when referring to a mixed group or a group of women/girls. But I'll comfortably say "OK, you guys..." even to a group of all women.

This isn't modern; I've been doing it my whole life and I'm over 50. I grew up in Michigan; I wonder if this is a regional usage.

In contrast, "dude," "men," "mankind," and "he/him" have a male-only connotation to me, although I can hear other people use "dude" in a gender-neutral manner. (I can't do that with the other words.)
Thoughts? Datapoints?

I also use "y'all," "youse" (but they don't feel like "my language"; they feel like I'm stealing them from other people's language), "peeps," and "folks." ("Peeps" feels modern to me, and "folks" feels old-fashioned.)
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feuervogel: photo of the statue of Victory and her chariot on the Brandenburg Gate (Default)

[personal profile] feuervogel 2013-01-22 02:58 am (UTC)(link)
I use y'all. If I'm feeling silly, I use yinz (I went to college in PA, and my roommate was from Pittsburgh. Other college folks used youse guys.) I feel like y'all is more accepted than it used to be.

I always heard 'you guys' growing up in Maryland, but I've generally stopped using it, since it's exclusionary. I'm not a 'guys.' My genderqueer, non-binary-identified friend definitely isn't a 'guys,' so I don't call them that.

Folks does feel old-fashioned, but I use it on occasion.
amadi: Comedian Eddie Izzard holds his hands out, saying "pause!" (Pause)

[personal profile] amadi 2013-01-22 06:54 am (UTC)(link)
Meanwhile, anyone actually in Pittsburgh who says yinz is immediately marked as someone who is to be taken a little less seriously...
feuervogel: photo of the statue of Victory and her chariot on the Brandenburg Gate (Default)

[personal profile] feuervogel 2013-01-22 01:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, yeah. Court mainly uses it tongue in cheek, like when posting Yinztagram pictures to facebook (or "Go Stillers") or saying "Hey yinzers, anyone want to go out tonight?"

Then there's how people perceive "y'allers." William Shatner made fun of a fan who asked a question of him at Dragon*Con and used "y'all." Leonard Nimoy told him he was being an asshole.
firecat: damiel from wings of desire tasting blood on his fingers. text "i has a flavor!" (Default)

[personal profile] firecat 2013-01-22 06:45 pm (UTC)(link)
William Shatner made fun of a fan who asked a question of him at Dragon*Con and used "y'all." Leonard Nimoy told him he was being an asshole.

I wish I could have been there.
feuervogel: photo of the statue of Victory and her chariot on the Brandenburg Gate (Default)

[personal profile] feuervogel 2013-01-22 06:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Here is a summary, and a fan recorded the whole panel and put it up in 7 parts on YouTube. part 1. (I don't know how far into the panel it was, but at least halfway through I think.)
amadi: A bouquet of dark purple roses (Affection)

[personal profile] amadi 2013-01-23 08:12 am (UTC)(link)
Further proof that Leonard Nimoy is a true quality individual!
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