firecat | Wiscon

Claimer: I have a small role working on Wiscon.

I think people who run Wiscon did a right thing by withdrawing Elizabeth Moon's GOH invitation, as a result of her writing a post that showed intolerance of Muslims, and then deleting all the comments on the post.

I disagree with the people who think it was unforgivable that the decision was not made instantaneously.

I don't disagree with the people who think it took too long. I also have sympathy for the amount of time it took, because the decision-makers were trying to deal with a situation they haven't handled before, and that's hard for a sizable group of humans.

I disagree with the people who think it is unforgivable for Wiscon's public communications to have waffled (the initial message was that we would not withdraw the invitation, then we did). It would have been better if that hadn't happened, but see above.

I agree with the people who point out that the length of time the decision took caused practical and emotional hardship for potential Wiscon attendees who felt unsafe as a result of EM's remarks.

I agree that the waffling and the delay made it look like the people who put on Wiscon might not be committed to creating a convention welcoming to people of color and third-wave feminists.

I think almost all the people who put on Wiscon are committed to creating a convention with a social justice focus. Also, we may not be working hard enough on it and may not be sufficiently well educated on social justice issues.

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I think a lot of the length-of-decision-time issue could actually have been avoided with a more transparent process - or just some more communication, you know? I am definitely sympathetic to how long committee decisions can take, especially in a totally new situation, but I feel like this was a huge process failure. Hopefully some solutions can be found for that.

I do think that Wiscon and the concom are working hard to make it the best con they can.

The length-of-decision-time issue could have been mitigated by a process, period. There essentially wasn't one, because the issue hasn't come up before. There will be one in the future I'm sure.

I didn't know there wasn't a process at all! *facepalm* Oh, man.

After all, how often does this happen, the need to reconsider a GOH invitation? I'm going to ask my local con to come up with a process now, but it never occurred to me before.

Very insightful post. It all makes perfect sense to me.

Thanks for the support!

All very very good points. May I link?

Thank you. Certainly you may!

if you do, and if you don't. Make the decision instantly, and prepare for months of recriminations and second-guessing for having shot from the hip. Make it slowly, and get slammed for dithering and screwing with people's plans. Make whatever process you have fully open, and people who merely have a voice will believe they have a vote; meanwhile other people who don't want to have everything they say nitpicked will pull back. Make the process closed, and you'll have the appearance (and maybe the reality) of being arbitrary and capricious. I've been in organization where events and other things were run both ways (sometimes the same organization and even the same people), and hard decisions suck. In a bad way.

Which doesn't mean that there aren't better and worse ways of managing such decisions, just that the gamut for outcomes ranges from less rotten to more rotten, and that one maybe shouldn't expect anything other than that. Which is all pretty much a longwinded way of saying "What she said."

(I am reminded a little of an acquaintance who was diagnosed with a recurrence of cancer a few months after finally marrying and moving to the same city as his longtime love. His equanimity, courage and grace were like a beacon to everyone around him, and he did the best job of dying -- emotionally, logistically, physically -- you could ask for. It was still horrible.)

I agree with all of that.

In my personal life, DIYDDIYD is represented by my caretaker role for my mom.

Well said. To you and

firecat. Tough and uncomfortable situations are just that, and nothing can make them otherwise.

From the outside, it seems obvious what *should* have happened. "if only they had consulted *me*, I would have had the perfect answer at the tip of my tongue"

Having been in the inside of these kinds of decisions, I now understand what is and isn't practical. People don't just go inventing a process just in case one becomes necessary.

I'm thinking of that line in _Cyteen_, something about how nothing ever happens unless people trust each other.

I agree with pretty much everything you say here. To me, the problem wasn't lack of a snap decision to withdraw her GoH invitation, but that we got something that looked rather like a snap decision to not withdraw. If you're dealing with a large body of people who have a complicated decision to make, the first thing isn't to say something that sounds like a decision has already been made. There's a significant connotational difference between "we are still deciding what to do" and "we've not decided to withdraw her GoH", if you follow.

(I was also rather disappointed by the committee's apparent obliviousness to the existence of Muslim women SF fans, even feminist Muslim women SF fans. But that could be the eduction on social justice thing.)

Yes, the apparent snap decision not to withdraw didn't look good.

Many people on the committee do know (there are) feminist Muslim women SF fans but I can see how it might not have looked like that.

Many people on the committee do know (there are) feminist Muslim women SF fans but I can see how it might not have looked like that.

I just find it really hard to imagine that the reaction would have been the same if EM (or another GoH) had made similarly-bigotted statements against fat people, or those with mental illness, or as others have pointed out, Jews. They're also groups that overlap with feminism, but more obviously with what I thought of as the "Nice White Lady" feminism on display.

(And this isn't intended as criticism, other than in the sense of "here's what it looked like to one observer, maybe it'll help prevent problems or clarify policy for the future".)

That makes sense. I agree.

Posts like this, from actual PoC who have or want to attend WisCon, are part of a steady drip that contribute to my impression that WisCon is a Nice White Lady con, and thus unlikely to be Muslim-friendly. It's very rare I can recall a PoC saying unreservedly that WisCon got something right, the most positive they get seem to get is "well-intentioned".

I sent you a PM about this.

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