![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
firecatThe other day I was hanging around with a friend and my friend said "What have you been up to?" and I was tired and hadn't been doing anything unusual since last seeing my friend, so I said "Not much" and my friend looked at me like I had three heads and said "Really?!" And I felt like my friend was judging me for that answer.
elaine4queen posts about how to interact with an introvert, and links to a couple of lists of introvert traits.
(For the record, I think of an introvert as someone who needs alone-time to recharge, and an extrovert as someone who needs social-time to recharge. Most of the other stuff that people associate with introversion and extroversion, I don't think it comes directly out of those tendencies.)
Ten Myths about Introverts and how they apply to meeeeeeeeee.
Myth #1 – Introverts don’t like to talk.
This is not true. Introverts just don’t talk unless they have something to say. They hate small talk. Get an introvert talking about something they are interested in, and they won’t shut up for days.
I don't hate small talk. Actually I like the kind of small talk where I can talk to someone and not have to think very hard. But some kinds of small talk seem complicated to me (see the anecdote at the beginning of this post), and I have to be in the mood to engage in that kind of small talk, and I'm often not in the mood.
Myth #2 – Introverts are shy.
Shyness has nothing to do with being an Introvert. Introverts are not necessarily afraid of people. What they need is a reason to interact. They don’t interact for the sake of interacting. If you want to talk to an Introvert, just start talking. Don’t worry about being polite.
I interact for the sake of interacting sometimes. I just don't do it all the time.
I very much prefer that people be polite when they start talking to me, thank you very much. Primarily because someone walking up to me and talking to me, when I am otherwise engaged, does not count in my book as a "reason to interact."
Myth #3 – Introverts are rude.
Introverts often don’t see a reason for beating around the bush with social pleasantries. They want everyone to just be real and honest. Unfortunately, this is not acceptable in most settings, so Introverts can feel a lot of pressure to fit in, which they find exhausting.
I see lots of reasons for social pleasantries. Maybe I don't want as many of them as some people. And I decidedly don't want everyone to "just be real and honest." Some people, when they are being real and honest, make me want to rip their heads off. Being around someone when I want to rip their head off is exhausting.
Myth #4 – Introverts don’t like people.
On the contrary, Introverts intensely value the few friends they have. They can count their close friends on one hand. If you are lucky enough for an introvert to consider you a friend, you probably have a loyal ally for life. Once you have earned their respect as being a person of substance, you’re in.
This is pretty much true, but also I like a number of people who aren't the few close friends I have. I just can't spend endless amounts of time with them without getting tired.
Myth #5 – Introverts don’t like to go out in public.
Nonsense. Introverts just don’t like to go out in public FOR AS LONG. They also like to avoid the complications that are involved in public activities. They take in data and experiences very quickly, and as a result, don’t need to be there for long to “get it.” They’re ready to go home, recharge, and process it all. In fact, recharging is absolutely crucial for Introverts.
This is mostly true. I don't know what "complications" means. If it means 20 people standing around trying to figure out where they're going to eat, then yeah, I like to avoid it.
Also I doubt that all introverts "take in data and experiences very quickly." I sometimes do.
Myth #6 – Introverts always want to be alone.
Introverts are perfectly comfortable with their own thoughts. They think a lot. They daydream. They like to have problems to work on, puzzles to solve. But they can also get incredibly lonely if they don’t have anyone to share their discoveries with. They crave an authentic and sincere connection with ONE PERSON at a time.
I'm often comfortable with my own thoughts, yes. I disagree with the "ONE PERSON at a time" thing...at least as an exclusive thing. If I cared so much about only that, I wouldn't blog or spend time on the Internet, which I think many introverts like to do. Also I like spending time in small groups, I just get tired quickly in large groups.
Myth #7 – Introverts are weird.
Introverts are often individualists. They don’t follow the crowd. They’d prefer to be valued for their novel ways of living. They think for themselves and because of that, they often challenge the norm. They don’t make most decisions based on what is popular or trendy.
I follow the crowd in plenty of things and so do most of the other introverts I know, but there are a number of ways in which I don't, and that's probably true of other introverts I know. But it's also true of extroverts I know.
Myth #8 – Introverts are aloof nerds.
Introverts are people who primarily look inward, paying close attention to their thoughts and emotions. It’s not that they are incapable of paying attention to what is going on around them, it’s just that their inner world is much more stimulating and rewarding to them.
Actually I don't look inward so much these days. One of my favorite activities is watching people in a parking lot. What makes me look like an aloof nerd sometimes is that I like to be quiet.
Myth #9 – Introverts don’t know how to relax and have fun.
Introverts typically relax at home or in nature, not in busy public places. Introverts are not thrill seekers and adrenaline junkies. If there is too much talking and noise going on, they shut down. Their brains are too sensitive to the neurotransmitter called Dopamine. Introverts and Extroverts have different dominant neuro-pathways. Just look it up.
It's more about not having AS MUCH energy for talking and noise than about not being able to tolerate any of it. It's true I'm mostly not an adrenaline junkie. As for thrill seeker, I get plenty of thrills, but a little goes a long way. Maybe because of the dopamine thing.
Myth #10 – Introverts can fix themselves and become Extroverts.
A world without Introverts would be a world with few scientists, musicians, artists, poets, filmmakers, doctors, mathematicians, writers, and philosophers. That being said, there are still plenty of techniques an Extrovert can learn in order to interact with Introverts. (Yes, I reversed these two terms on purpose to show you how biased our society is.) Introverts cannot “fix themselves” and deserve respect for their natural temperament and contributions to the human race. In fact, one study (Silverman, 1986) showed that the percentage of Introverts increases with IQ.
I kinda think there are plenty of extrovert scientists, musicians, etc. I think that introverts can change into extroverts and vice versa, but maybe not at will. And I think introverts can compensate and end up looking like extroverts, which is different from "becoming" them.
Give them advanced notice of expected changes in their lives.
Yes, but is needing that really an introvert trait per se?
Give them 15 minute warnings to finish whatever they are doing before calling them to dinner or moving on to the next activity.
I appreciate this, but I never thought of it as an introvert trait. For example, my OH is an extrovert and he hates being interrupted in the middle of an activity.
Reprimand them privately.
Again, shouldn't this apply to everyone?
Teach them new skills privately rather than in public.
I tend to need a lot of time to master new skills, especially skills with a physical component. But I enjoy taking classes, so I guess it doesn't entirely apply to me.
Enable them to find one best friend who has similar interests and abilities.
I prefer having more than one best friend but I do like having only a few close friends and I prefer my friends to have some similar interests. But I don't especially need people to try to enable this. I have always managed to find my own friends.
Do not push them to make lots of friends.
Yeah, but should anyone be pushing anyone around friend-making?
elaine4queen posts about how to interact with an introvert, and links to a couple of lists of introvert traits.(For the record, I think of an introvert as someone who needs alone-time to recharge, and an extrovert as someone who needs social-time to recharge. Most of the other stuff that people associate with introversion and extroversion, I don't think it comes directly out of those tendencies.)
Ten Myths about Introverts and how they apply to meeeeeeeeee.
Myth #1 – Introverts don’t like to talk.
This is not true. Introverts just don’t talk unless they have something to say. They hate small talk. Get an introvert talking about something they are interested in, and they won’t shut up for days.
I don't hate small talk. Actually I like the kind of small talk where I can talk to someone and not have to think very hard. But some kinds of small talk seem complicated to me (see the anecdote at the beginning of this post), and I have to be in the mood to engage in that kind of small talk, and I'm often not in the mood.
Myth #2 – Introverts are shy.
Shyness has nothing to do with being an Introvert. Introverts are not necessarily afraid of people. What they need is a reason to interact. They don’t interact for the sake of interacting. If you want to talk to an Introvert, just start talking. Don’t worry about being polite.
I interact for the sake of interacting sometimes. I just don't do it all the time.
I very much prefer that people be polite when they start talking to me, thank you very much. Primarily because someone walking up to me and talking to me, when I am otherwise engaged, does not count in my book as a "reason to interact."
Myth #3 – Introverts are rude.
Introverts often don’t see a reason for beating around the bush with social pleasantries. They want everyone to just be real and honest. Unfortunately, this is not acceptable in most settings, so Introverts can feel a lot of pressure to fit in, which they find exhausting.
I see lots of reasons for social pleasantries. Maybe I don't want as many of them as some people. And I decidedly don't want everyone to "just be real and honest." Some people, when they are being real and honest, make me want to rip their heads off. Being around someone when I want to rip their head off is exhausting.
Myth #4 – Introverts don’t like people.
On the contrary, Introverts intensely value the few friends they have. They can count their close friends on one hand. If you are lucky enough for an introvert to consider you a friend, you probably have a loyal ally for life. Once you have earned their respect as being a person of substance, you’re in.
This is pretty much true, but also I like a number of people who aren't the few close friends I have. I just can't spend endless amounts of time with them without getting tired.
Myth #5 – Introverts don’t like to go out in public.
Nonsense. Introverts just don’t like to go out in public FOR AS LONG. They also like to avoid the complications that are involved in public activities. They take in data and experiences very quickly, and as a result, don’t need to be there for long to “get it.” They’re ready to go home, recharge, and process it all. In fact, recharging is absolutely crucial for Introverts.
This is mostly true. I don't know what "complications" means. If it means 20 people standing around trying to figure out where they're going to eat, then yeah, I like to avoid it.
Also I doubt that all introverts "take in data and experiences very quickly." I sometimes do.
Myth #6 – Introverts always want to be alone.
Introverts are perfectly comfortable with their own thoughts. They think a lot. They daydream. They like to have problems to work on, puzzles to solve. But they can also get incredibly lonely if they don’t have anyone to share their discoveries with. They crave an authentic and sincere connection with ONE PERSON at a time.
I'm often comfortable with my own thoughts, yes. I disagree with the "ONE PERSON at a time" thing...at least as an exclusive thing. If I cared so much about only that, I wouldn't blog or spend time on the Internet, which I think many introverts like to do. Also I like spending time in small groups, I just get tired quickly in large groups.
Myth #7 – Introverts are weird.
Introverts are often individualists. They don’t follow the crowd. They’d prefer to be valued for their novel ways of living. They think for themselves and because of that, they often challenge the norm. They don’t make most decisions based on what is popular or trendy.
I follow the crowd in plenty of things and so do most of the other introverts I know, but there are a number of ways in which I don't, and that's probably true of other introverts I know. But it's also true of extroverts I know.
Myth #8 – Introverts are aloof nerds.
Introverts are people who primarily look inward, paying close attention to their thoughts and emotions. It’s not that they are incapable of paying attention to what is going on around them, it’s just that their inner world is much more stimulating and rewarding to them.
Actually I don't look inward so much these days. One of my favorite activities is watching people in a parking lot. What makes me look like an aloof nerd sometimes is that I like to be quiet.
Myth #9 – Introverts don’t know how to relax and have fun.
Introverts typically relax at home or in nature, not in busy public places. Introverts are not thrill seekers and adrenaline junkies. If there is too much talking and noise going on, they shut down. Their brains are too sensitive to the neurotransmitter called Dopamine. Introverts and Extroverts have different dominant neuro-pathways. Just look it up.
It's more about not having AS MUCH energy for talking and noise than about not being able to tolerate any of it. It's true I'm mostly not an adrenaline junkie. As for thrill seeker, I get plenty of thrills, but a little goes a long way. Maybe because of the dopamine thing.
Myth #10 – Introverts can fix themselves and become Extroverts.
A world without Introverts would be a world with few scientists, musicians, artists, poets, filmmakers, doctors, mathematicians, writers, and philosophers. That being said, there are still plenty of techniques an Extrovert can learn in order to interact with Introverts. (Yes, I reversed these two terms on purpose to show you how biased our society is.) Introverts cannot “fix themselves” and deserve respect for their natural temperament and contributions to the human race. In fact, one study (Silverman, 1986) showed that the percentage of Introverts increases with IQ.
I kinda think there are plenty of extrovert scientists, musicians, etc. I think that introverts can change into extroverts and vice versa, but maybe not at will. And I think introverts can compensate and end up looking like extroverts, which is different from "becoming" them.
Give them advanced notice of expected changes in their lives.
Yes, but is needing that really an introvert trait per se?
Give them 15 minute warnings to finish whatever they are doing before calling them to dinner or moving on to the next activity.
I appreciate this, but I never thought of it as an introvert trait. For example, my OH is an extrovert and he hates being interrupted in the middle of an activity.
Reprimand them privately.
Again, shouldn't this apply to everyone?
Teach them new skills privately rather than in public.
I tend to need a lot of time to master new skills, especially skills with a physical component. But I enjoy taking classes, so I guess it doesn't entirely apply to me.
Enable them to find one best friend who has similar interests and abilities.
I prefer having more than one best friend but I do like having only a few close friends and I prefer my friends to have some similar interests. But I don't especially need people to try to enable this. I have always managed to find my own friends.
Do not push them to make lots of friends.
Yeah, but should anyone be pushing anyone around friend-making?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 12:55 am (UTC)I do. I just often do it on my own, that's all.
Thanks for the links!
no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 01:50 am (UTC)Are the points in the box meant to apply to raising an introvert child? They make more sense thinking of a parent-child relationship, I think.
The me me me from another introvert
Date: 8 May 2011 02:19 am (UTC)2) Not shy.
3) Social pleasantries are what makes it possible for me to interact with people as much as I do. When I figured out that when people ask me how I am, they really just want to hear "Fine, thanks" unless we're really close, it took a lot of pressure off me.
4) I have too hard a time articulating the things that are wrong with this about me.
5) Sometimes, I *prefer* big gatherings, because I can disappear into them and not have to interact with people at all.
6) Unless we're really close, one-on-one time for me is the hardest of all interactions. I don't get a break from interacting if there's no one else to interact with the other person.
7) I echo you on #7, but yeah, I'm weird. So are a lot of extroverts.
8) I think I can come off as an aloof nerd sometimes, but most of the time, I think I come off as friendlier than I feel, and less introverted than I feel, because I am okay at the pleasantries and I get pleasure out of making people around me comfortable, even when I'd really rather be home reading a book.
9/10) I don't know how to judge myself on #9's claim, and #10 just irritated me in much the same way "all poly people are so above jealousy" posts do.
Thanks for posting this!
no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 04:07 am (UTC)1. I quite enjoy small talk too, since it necessarily means I'm having a conversation that will not be getting into potentially-controversial and therefore irritating/exhausting topics. Of course, that applies mostly to people I'm not good friends with.
2. I'm shy, but I'm not afraid of people. It's unfamiliar situations I'm not comfortable with. And I'm with you 100% on the requirement for people to be POLITE to me. Where does being an introvert give people permission to be inappropriately "blunt"/rude? I am however happy if people want to initiate the conversation (since I generally don't).
3. Seconded with the requirement for pleasantries and for people to not be aggressively "real and honest", including the ripping-head-off desires.
4. Again with the liking people who aren't in my close social circle. I won't go and socialise with them in general, but it's nice to get on well with people I meet at work or who are friends-of-friends.
5. Uh, I spend quite lengthy amounts of time in public. I like sitting in a cafe for hours and reading. I like sitting in the park listening to buskers and watching the world go by. I even like going to music concerts heaving with people if I love the band. Agoraphobia (mild or not) is not the same as introversion.
6. And seconded with ONE person at a time. Actually, sometimes, for people I'm less-close to, it's easier to have a few around to remove some of the burden of social interaction. Although one-on-one time with my nearest-and-dearest is something I'm very jealous of.
7. Yep, I don't think we're more individualistic than extroverts are. Again, the continuums between individualistic/communal vs introvert/extrovert are orthogonal to each other - and quite often aligned to societal programming more than anything.
8. Nope, I'm not all hung up on my inner world either. It's just not that interesting.
9. I'm not an adrenaline junkie either, but I'm not sure if it's related to introversion/extroversion. Maybe because high-adrenaline activities tend to be group endeavours as well?
10. I can vouch for the fact that I'm not any more creative or scientificy than any of the extroverts in my life. And yep, depending on environmental factors and your own learning, I'm sure you can move along the spectrum. I'm a hell of a lot less introverted than I was as child and teenager. You can definitely learn social skills, given the right encouragement.
And all seconded with your final points. I also would say "let them observe first in new situations" is not a universal thing. I'd rather not wait around too long to feel nervous, and I generally prefer that someone-in-the-know fills me in on or models what should go on.
no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 05:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 05:46 pm (UTC)I am a strong introvert. My partners are what I think of as a "reserved" introvert, a shy strong extrovert and one who falls about where I do on the introvert/social scale. And none of our preferences and talents line up in consistent way other than in how much alone time we need to recharge.
I honestly think most of these lists just come from somebody deciding that since they are an introvert and so are a bunch of their friends then the things they prefer must be universal introvert traits.
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 02:00 am (UTC)BTW, the one about "real and honest" seems to me to be conflating autism-spectrum with introversion.
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 03:05 pm (UTC)Also, I'm particularly gobsmacked by the explanation for #5. The whole point of many/most social situations is not to "get it" and move on, it's to be in some kind of flow and enjoy the experience. Imo, at least...
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 04:34 pm (UTC)Yes, same here. And I do it with other people too, but not necessarily for handfuls of hours at a time.
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 04:35 pm (UTC)Go, aloof nerds!
Are the points in the box meant to apply to raising an introvert child?
Don't know the context of the points in the box, but it does sound that way, yeah.
Re: The me me me from another introvert
Date: 9 May 2011 04:37 pm (UTC)Heh, I remember figuring this out too!
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 04:40 pm (UTC)Yes, exactly!
I'm shy, but I'm not afraid of people. It's unfamiliar situations I'm not comfortable with.
Very interesting. I think this is true for me too (or at least it's part of the reason I sometimes act reserved and don't initiate conversations). I'll have to think about this some more.
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 04:41 pm (UTC)Oh, that's true of me too, but I'd never quite put it into words. Thanks!
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 04:42 pm (UTC)Yes, I think that's true.
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 04:42 pm (UTC)I agree.
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 04:45 pm (UTC)Yes, exactly.
Also, I'm particularly gobsmacked by the explanation for #5. The whole point of many/most social situations is not to "get it" and move on, it's to be in some kind of flow and enjoy the experience.
I have had a feeling, in social situations where I am not having a good time, of "OK, I did my duty and got out of the house, can we go home now?" But yeah, that's not the experience I am looking for.
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 09:41 pm (UTC)Again, shouldn't this apply to everyone?
Maybe not? I gather that some extroverts, maybe most, would prefer to be bitched out in front of their peers (not, "their superiors"); that lets everyone know why they're in a lousy mood for the day, and that they'd appreciate sympathy if it's warranted.
"Dude, coach really chewed you out for dropping the ball on that play. Bet you'll be more careful next time, right?"
Military reprimands are often done publicly, and those are generally considered milder than the private ones.
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 10:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 12:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 12:51 am (UTC)I really like your amendments.
When I see these lists, I feel like the implicit statement is "unlike those STUPID ASSHOLE SLOW-THINKER SHALLOW EXTROVERTS!" Which really annoys me. As you might imagine.
no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 02:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 04:12 am (UTC)5
Date: 8 May 2011 07:01 am (UTC)or maybe it's like that gary larson cartoon 'grandad was a slow reader' and you see grandad reading a newspaper with a headline like 'germany invades poland'.
no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 07:02 am (UTC)and the other stuff is just extra.
no subject
Date: 8 May 2011 03:25 pm (UTC)I think that the "don't worry about being polite" was intended to say "don't worry about finding what is normally considered a polite cue to start a conversation, because you're not likely to get one." I hope so; it doesn't make *any* sense otherwise.
(Doesn't make any sense, in a kind of "how could a human being *write* that?" sort of way. "They must have had *some* kind of point. What on earth could it be? I wonder if what they mean is...?")
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 12:36 am (UTC)Btw, this reminds me of a bit from Rosalie Colie's intro to her book *Paradoxia Epidemica*, about paradox in 17th-century English literature. It has a whole chapter about paradoxes concerning the idea of nothing, and she loved when people would ask what she'd been working on, so she could say, "Nothing."
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 12:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 04:45 pm (UTC)Yes, same here.
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 04:47 pm (UTC)Me too!
no subject
Date: 9 May 2011 11:02 pm (UTC)I was particularly annoyed by the idea that there wouldn't be any scientists or artists if there were no introverts. The things are completely orthogonal, in my experience. It reminded me of the repeated meme that creative people are depressed and have had bad things happen to them. Some are and have, yes, but it's not a rule.
P.
no subject
Date: 11 May 2011 09:47 am (UTC)But I could be an anomaly. :)
no subject
Date: 11 May 2011 09:49 am (UTC)The second thing that struck me was that I have no idea which I am, which led to the third thing, that it's really very complex and requires more thought. :)
no subject
Date: 11 May 2011 11:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 11 May 2011 05:34 pm (UTC)There are also people who are more in the middle (ambivert).