firecat

"The Confidence Gap" by Katty Kay and Claire Shipman

This article infuriates me in a way that many Atlantic articles do, because it frames the issue poorly, contradicts itself, and twists even those facts that it presents as support for its argument.

Why is "Women don't have enough confidence" a better way of framing the issue than "Men don't care enough about failure"? Especially when the writers seem to be unhappy with the evidence that people don't care about competence as much as confidence: "Infuriatingly, a lack of competence doesn’t necessarily have negative consequences."

Why is takeaway message "Women need to to stop thinking so much and just act" when the article also contains this statement: "Most people can spot fake confidence from a mile away"?

A scientist studied how men and women did on a certain test when they were acting on their own, given instructions to try every question, and various other conditions. Women did worse than men when acting on their own because they skipped some questions, scored the same as men when the subjects were told to try every question, and scored lower than men when the subjects were told to rate their confidence before attempting the problem.

Finally, Estes decided to attempt a direct confidence boost. He told some members of the group, completely at random, that they had done very well on the previous test. On the next test they took, those men and women improved their scores dramatically.

...which the authors summarize as "What doomed the women in Estes’s lab was not their actual ability to do well on the tests....What held them back was the choice they made not to try." But nowhere is it suggested that men might be more likely to try because they have received so many other "direct confidence boosts" throughout their lifetimes.

Crossposts: http://firecat.livejournal.com/830238.html

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

ironed_orchid

Why is "Women don't have enough confidence" a better way of framing the issue than "Men don't care enough about failure"?

That is such an interesting way of framing it.

I want to read that article, now.

From:

ysabetwordsmith

Consider that women are often penalized more harshly for failure than men are. It can make people gunshy.

From:

grammarwoman

Thank you! I had lots of the same difficulties with this article; they gloss right over the way women are raised to seek consensus while men are groomed to stand out.

From:

silveradept

"Women need more confidence." says the article. "But women who show confidence are going to be seen negatively." Apparently, there's a mystic sweet spot of confidence that's enough to get you noticed, but not so much that you get thought of as a bitch. Grah. How about we retool things so that competence is rewarded, rather than overconfidence, maybe?

From:

snippy

I don't know that there is a way. I mean, this is part of the definition of woman, right? Too slutty or too mean (friendzoned me!), no sweet spot. Too pushy or too self-effacing (when asking for a raise), no sweet spot. Overconfident or unambitious (they just don't want those high status, high-paying jobs!), no sweet spot. This is systemic, not an individual problem.

From:

firecat

Exactly.

From:

firecat

Definitely.

From:

firecat

Yeah, there is no mystic sweet spot of confidence that women can actually achieve. Women are just held up in contrast to an ideal that constantly moves.

From:

firecat

Yep

From:

silveradept

Yep. Sorry, I needed to have a stronger signal of my contempt of the idea of the magic sweet spot, instead of sounding earnest that there was one.

From:

zeborah

But nowhere is it suggested that men might be more likely to try because they have received so many other "direct confidence boosts" throughout their lifetimes.

OMG THIS.

From:

stardreamer

Women are much more likely than men to take the listed experience requirements for a job seriously, and not apply if they lack said requirements. Men routinely scatter-shot resumes to every job posting in their career area, and confidently expect to get interviews -- and even to get hired -- whether they have the experience or not.

Which is not to say that women should apply for jobs for which they are not qualified, because their lack of qualification will be used to rule them out, unlike what happens to men.

From:

firecat

In other words, both women and men accurately read how people will treat them. As opposed to "women sell themselves short." No, the world sells women short.

From:

elainegrey

After having a bout of impostor syndrome, Christine waved the article at me. Knowing how irritated the Atlantic's reporting has made me in the past when gender was involved, i am glad i passed. Thanks for wading in the muck and confirming my expectation that it would stink to high heaven.