no subject

[firecat]

"Scarlett Johansson’s Ghost in the Shell casting is even worse than it seems," by Kwame Opam

My take on this article: I agree with its argument that the story of Ghost in the Shell is inherently Japanese and it's racist to whitewash the live action remake.

But I think by the argument that the story is inherently Japanese, there should be no white European remake of the story at all. (The director is British, the writers are white, except that the writer for the original Ghost in the Shell is also credited.) Casting Japanese actors wouldn't solve the problem that white European movie-makers are pretty unlikely to do justice to an inherently Japanese story line.

I'm therefore inclined to assume that this is going to be a movie that doesn't have anything in common with the original anime, except the title and the names of some of the characters.

I would normally be interested in seeing an action movie with Scarlett Johannson in it, if it got good reviews, because there aren't enough action movies with female leads. And I'm undecided whether I should boycott this movie because it's named after a Japanese anime movie. I probably won't decide until I see reviews.

What do you think?

Comments

[flippac]

I think that The Departed is unlike the other adaptations listed in that it had the decency to not call itself Infernal Affairs (and the two are different enough experiences that it's possible to have an honest argument about their merits, whether you count just the first IA film or the trilogy).

And yeah, I'm skipping.

[tagryn]

I don't have high hopes for it, given Hollywood's tendency to sometimes mangle good stories when translated to the big screen. I'd have the same concerns if I heard a big studio was trying to create a live action version of one of Miyazaki's classics, but that has to do with execution, not whether the story is so closely identified with a particular culture that only people who look a certain way are allowed to embody it. To me, that's coming uncomfortably close to the folks who are uneasy with the idea of Idris Elba being 007, or those who had problems with Thor being a woman, etc.

If we're going to challenge stereotypes and mix things up, then lets embrace it, rather than saying this character or that storyline are culturally off-limits. As the article alludes to, its a little late in the game to bring that argument to the table, given the long history of Hollywood putting their own spin on ideas that first started out in Japanese media - a more recent example is All You Need Is Kill, aka Edge of Tomorrow, which morphed Keiji Kiriya's character into Tom Cruise's Cage character. Its not impossible to translate a story well across cultural boundaries to reach a different audience, just difficult.

[bibliogramma]

These are tge kinds of questions that torment me greatly. With the exceotion of sacred stories which are culturally designated as mysteries or narratives that shpuld be passed on unchanged and without reinterpretation, I'm generally in favour of new visionings - even across cultural lines - of al sorts of stories.

On the other hand, while we live in a racist world stil reeling from military, economic, cultural and religiois colonialism and imperialism, anyone from the colonisers' side had best be damned careful and respectful when interpreting a work from a colonised culture. I don't get the feeling the producers were being careful and respectful in this case.

[firecat]

Good point.

[firecat]

I don't have high hopes for it, given Hollywood's tendency to sometimes mangle good stories when translated to the big screen.

Ditto.

given the long history of Hollywood putting their own spin on ideas that first started out in Japanese media

And the reverse, although in terms of cultural privilege, that's very much not the same.

[firecat]

I don't get the feeling the producers were being careful and respectful in this case.

I haven't read enough about this movie to have an opinion about that, but it's the way to bet.

[yifu]

As said upthread, there's no feeling that the GitS movie-makers are being perceptive in handling the original material. Plus, this is too close to the whitewashing in Dr. Strange and Death Note. So I'm definitety not watching the GitS movie.

[tagryn]

And the reverse, although in terms of cultural privilege, that's very much not the same.

I'm not sure that cultural privilege applies in this case, given that Japan is one of the leading economic, cultural, and increasingly also military/interventionist, powers on the planet, and has been for the past half-century. There was a undeniable power imbalance during the occupation after WWII, but now its more the relation of any strong culture/nation like China or the UK has to the U.S.

[selki]

I keep meaning to watch the original sometime.

[snippy]

Given Japan's (or at least, many Japanese people's) response to the protests at the (Boston?) Museum of Fine Arts, I'm gonna guess it doesn't bother Japan-born Japanese at all to have people remake their stories. It might bother US-born Japanese (again, referring to the protest).

My position is that it's all fanfic, tempered by the power relationship between most-white, mostly-male Hollywood and the rest of us. That is, I am not bothered by the reimagining, but I might find other general reasons to avoid this particular Hollywood extruded entertainment product since I already know I am not their target market.

[firecat]

That's a fair point. My impression is that Japanese borrowing from US culture started happening during or shortly after the occupation, so that might complicate things to some degree.

[firecat]

Makes sense.

[firecat]

Oh, do! It's SO good.

[firecat]

That makes sense. In what way are you not their target market? Just because you're not the target of any Hollywood extruded entertainment product?

[silveradept]

I saw what happened with Cloud Atlas in the attempt to Asianize people who aren't, and it did not go well, so at least that mercy is granted. That said, this film seems like the perfect opportunity for a nonwhite cast to make and succeed big at the box office, considering the built-in fanbase for the series.

[firecat]

this film seems like the perfect opportunity for a nonwhite cast to make and succeed big at the box office, considering the built-in fanbase for the series.

It does, doesn't it? I guess we don't think like movie makers.

[snippy]

Exactly! I'm not a white man between 13 and 25 (or wishing I still were that age). I've seen so many producers, directors, and writers saying they're making the movie they wanted to watch when they were teens, and I'm SO OVER IT.

[silveradept]

Clearly not. Or at least, not like the people that finance big budget movies to get them made.

[firecat]

I'd love to be given $500,000,000 to make a movie I want to watch.

[elizabeth_rice]

Casting Japanese actors wouldn't solve the problem that white European movie-makers are pretty unlikely to do justice to an inherently Japanese story line.

True. I'm more than satisfied with the GitS manga and anime series and the anime movies. I have no need or desire to watch a Hollywood version.

But what really infuriated me was their "justification" for casting Scarlett. I'll explain this with an analogy.

(A little background info, I'm a non-American POC and I've been an anime fan since I was five.)

During the 80s and 90s, American women got two female heroes that empowered ordinary women and changed things for actresses too. (Well, it had a very global effect too 'cause these two characters are my heroes as well.) If you are a white American woman, imagine what your world would look like if you didn't have Ellen Ripley and Buffy Summers as positive female role-models because studios decided that movies with strong female leads just wouldn't be successful. And we all know the success of Alien franchise and Buffy the Vampire Slayer and how audiences can surprise you.

That's how I feel when I'm informed that a Japanese actress playing a hugely popular Japanese character apparently wouldn't draw audiences to cinemas. Well if they already feel that people won't pay to see this movie, before the making of the movie is even begun, why invest in this project in the first place?

[elizabeth_rice]

this film seems like the perfect opportunity for a nonwhite cast to make and succeed big at the box office, considering the built-in fanbase for the series.

Very, very true!

[firecat]

Very good point and analogy re: the "justification".

[beatgoddess.livejournal.com]

I think there should not be a white-led/created and/or white European-led/created remake of GitS. This is cultural property of Japanese (nationwise and ethnicity-wise) creators and an intended audience of genre fans, so the right thing to do was probably "not this." Supporting evidence: it took all of five seconds for Team White Movies to flame out in a racist glory/fail.

[firecat]

"intended audience of genre fans" — yes, good point.