My Wiscon panel schedule

[firecat]

Will you be coming to Wiscon?

We All Start Somewhere: Welcoming Social Justice Newbies
Fri, 4:00–5:15 pm
Conference 4
Moderator: Jacquelyn Gill.
Many people aren't born into families that talk a lot about or value social justice. We come from all different backgrounds with all different kinds of experiences. When someone wants to gain a better understanding of and start practicing social justice, how do we, as a community, welcome them and offer opportunities for education? How do we deal with the same basic questions over and over again? What do we do well? What could we do better?

Privilege in the Kitchen: Food Snobbery and Culinary Condescension
Sat, 2:30–3:45 pm Caucus
Foodieism is all the rage these days and while there's nothing wrong with making and enjoying good food, it seems to go hand in hand with a sense of condescension when it comes to cheap, simple fare; fattening foods (except for bacon, of course); and "poor food," the kind of thing prepared with a packet of this and a couple cans of that. Let us discuss economics, classism, racism, sizeism, and ableism in the ways we prepare, present, and talk about food.

Comments

[selki]

I will be at Balticon. Have fun!

[boxofdelights]

I will be there. Definitely going to your first panel.

[firecat]

Looking forward to seeing you!

[hobbitbabe]

Those sound fascinating.

[feuervogel]

I'm not, but that second panel sounds amazing. Can you give us a report when you get back?

[fyreharper]

Seconding this!

[megpie71]

Unfortunately Wiscon is a bit of a walk for me (from Australia *grin*), so I won't be able to make it. I agree with other people that the second panel sounds intriguing, and I'd love to hear how it went.

Personal anecdata: Up until about three or four years ago, my partner and I used to eat a lot of lamb shank casseroles and other cheap cuts of meat (gravy beef, chuck steak, pork spare ribs etc). Then the foodies found them, and the prices for a couple of lamb shanks doubled, and the prices of all the cheap cuts went up out of our reach - not helped by the dole rate being frozen by the government, either. These days the only meat we can afford on a regular basis is either cheap mince, cheap sausages, or chicken drumsticks. None of which are precisely exciting or interesting, or even much good in a slow cooker. So instead of being able to prepare a slow cooker meal early in the day when I have all my spoons, I now have to put something together later in the day, when I'm more likely to be tired out and uninterested in cooking, and it's much more likely to be something put together out of a few cans of whatever I have in the pantry. So there's a neat intersection of food snobbery, class effects, and disability effects for you.

[firecat]

I hope we do them justice!

[firecat]

I'll definitely try to.

[firecat]

I'll try to write up something. Thank you for the personal anecdata. May I share it at the panel? If so what name do you want me to use for the attribution?

[marahmarie]

and "poor food," the kind of thing prepared with a packet of this and a couple cans of that

The thing is, more often than not you cannot get decent nutrition from, but often do get too many calories and too much fat, salt, and unnatural ingredients, from a couple cans of this and packets of that.

I don't think poor people spontaneously choose to eat this way? Because doing so is either being trained or training yourself to go against the very instinct to survive.

I don't think poor people should be denied good nutrition merely because they don't make enough money to pay bills, care for children and/or extended families, and "also" eat decently (as though the "eating decently" part is the afterthought, though in reality it often is). But they are. If something must fall by the wayside then decent, nutritious food usually goes first. Healthy food almost invariably costs more than cans of this and packets of that. People don't want to live off ramen and dollar store cans but they do because it's how they survive. It's the only way they can. It's not by choice.

There is not a poor people's cans of this and packets of that culture. We're not going to go out and have a Poor People's Cans and Packets Pride Parade anytime soon because it's not something people choose to do unless they honestly prefer the taste of cheaper foods - and if they do prefer it than it's probably not a direct result of their own poverty, even if it is, say, a direct result of the poverty they might have been raised in that forced food choices on their families that as adults they never grew out of.

I can reel off a list of foods I was raised with that are not healthy that I will wolf down upon contact with because I learned to like them as a poor child: boxed mac and cheese. Spaghettio's (that's probably not how you spell it). Anything in the known universe with sugar added to it or in it. This is not a lifestyle choice. This is some of what I was eating when I was too young to buy or prepare my own food. It grew up with me, I grew up with it, so here we are.

There's food snobbery because good, nutritious, clean, organic, and wholesome foods simply cost more. The poor, who have more stressful and precarious lives to begin with, are expected to eat worse on top of that, because they must work harder to earn healthier food, or so they're told. You deserve whatever you can afford to eat, so if you can't afford it, you don't deserve it.

Food snobbery discussions are awesome but should begin with the simple knowledge and understanding that poor people don't get to choose to eat any better than the cans of this and packets of that which they wind up with because that's all the "extra" however many bucks each week they can scrape together by putting aside yet another overdue bill to buy any food with at all.

I'm just questioning it because the way it's worded in your OP I'm wondering where you all are going with this. If I attended (but it's on the wrong side of the country for me) and had to hear that our uh, "poor people" "choices" (<--people without money don't make "choices" - they buy whatever they can afford and no better than that just to survive) should be "respected" or even one word about how any of this is a viable alternative to better, healthier food I would be sick.

[firecat]

I wish you were going to be at the panel.

I agree that cans and packets are not foods that only people in financial poverty choose. ("Poor food" is in quotes in the panel description because some people think of certain foods that way, not because only poor people eat those foods or because those are the only foods poor people deserve.)

Some people eat packaged food because they don't have the physical ability to cook or store fresh food (disability, no time, no stove or oven, no ability to refrigerate food). Some people eat it because they like it. Some people who eat packaged food are healthy. Some people who eat fresh food are unhealthy.

I agree that a variety of food choices, including fresh food and packaged food, should be available to everyone.

I disagree that it's impossible to eat nutritiously from packaged food, and I disagree that "wholesome foods cost more" is the only issue. Another issue is that some people think their personal notions about which kinds of food are "good' and "bad" are the same judgements that everyone on the planet should be using.

[megpie71]

Using it is fine, credit me as Megpie71. Might want to make it clear that it's an Australian context - but I suspect there are similar situations happening in the US as well.

[firecat]

Thank you! Will do.

[sabotabby]

That second one sounds awesome.

[firecat]

Yes, great topic. I hope we will do it justice!

[frankiejlh.livejournal.com]

Oh my goodness, both of them. If you wanted to post a transcript/a recording/notes/napkin scribbles/something later, it would not go unappreciated.

Have an excellent time with the whole thing!