American Chopper / Loki TV crossover

[firecat]

On one of the fannish sites I hang out, people have been discussing the Loki series very intensely. Someone quoted bits of it via the American Chopper meme generator.

"The American Chopper meme, explained"



https://imgur.com/naHrd8P

Paul Teutul Sr. : This is it! This is why Sylvie's presence has been ruining everything for me, even in fic! It means that when she's there, Loki doesn't occupy the role I like him in, and does occupy a role I find him unsatisfying and uninteresting in.

Junior: Oh, it sounds like the direction Marvel has been taking the character in in both the comics and the films for the past decade just isn't for you then.

Paul Teutul Sr. : I don't think a trickster character should ever end up in the reasonable, rational caretaker who thinks about dutiful sacrifice and responsibility to the greater good role.

Junior: I think narrative and thematic parallels are sound.

Paul Teutul Sr. : It's not an organic fit and requires too much bending of the character to fit.

---

https://imgur.com/tSqTt2v

Paul Teutul Sr. : Loki shouldn't just be reacting to a presentation it's too much of a jump for the character to reach the place he did this fast

Junior: I think you're severely underestimating the effect that finding a bunch of Infinity Stones in a junk drawer and learning about the total destruction of Asgard and its people also had on him.

Paul Teutul Sr. : It's far too abrupt a change for Loki - we need more hours of him marinating on what he learned in episode 1 instead of turning good guy Loki immediately.

Junior: I don't think we actually see the shift in his character until midway through episode 5, which is reinforced at the steely look of determination we see at the tail end of episode 6.

Paul Teutul Sr. : I look at Loki in Avengers, and then at Loki in episode 3 onwards, and I can't recognise them as the same character or how he got there.



I love how passionate fans can get about our faves. (I had pretty much all the same thoughts. Simultaneously.)

Comments

[kore]

I am entirely too fucking charmed by that Vox article comparing this meme to dialectical reasoning (altho they're wrong about what the "Socratic method" is, but then everyone is, because it's been degraded to mean "cross-examination" and it's got a really specific form). I've been seeing that meme for years without really getting it.

[firecat]

It’s a fun article!

(sheds a tear for the death of the original meaning of Socratic Method)

[sabotabby]

Team Paul Teutul Sr all the way. Neither Loki nor Sylvie acted like trickster gods tbh and it bothered me a lot.

[firecat]

Yeah, they aren’t trickster gods, for sure. Loki’s always been more than a trickster god, so I’m trying to work with how they wrote him, but it’s a stretch.

[trascendenza]

Do you mind if I ask which fannish site? I'm getting super into Loki and definitely want to read more discussion!

I think I fall into the camp of... Loki's characterization from Thor to Avengers shifted drastically for me. I found the change in motivation baffling. So I prefer his arc in the series, because evil dictator Loki wasn't my favorite.

[firecat]

fail_fandomanon
It’s huge and hard to navigate, and there was a ton of wank in the Loki discussions as well as good stuff.

I’ve also heard there’s good discussion of the series on Reddit.

My explanation for Avengers!Loki is that he was tortured and brainwashed by Thanos. There have been a few hints by the creative team along such lines.

I love “evil dictator” as a temporary condition of Loki. Especially because of the contrast to King!Loki in Thor: Ragnarok. When he gets a chance to rule, he’s not a dictator, he sits around watching plays about himself.

[snippy]

It's too easy for me to confuse my assumptions about Marvel!Loki as if I actually knew something about historical!Loki. I like the Loki in the series because I like people who survive childhood trauma to turn into heroes, but I don't think of that story as historical!Loki. (I mean, is everybody in the MCU working out their problems from bad parenting?)

[firecat]

What do you mean by historical!Loki? The Norse myth character?

[snippy]

Yep, that one.

[firecat]

I like when Marvel!Loki acts like a trickster, but I also like that that's not all he is. And especially if there are going to be different versions of him, I'm good with some of the versions becoming less trickster-like.

But I do think that the character development happened too fast in the Loki series. It felt like watching six episodes of an 18-episode series.