When fanfic encounters the rest of the world

[firecat]

"Is It Time to Rethink the Rules of Fanfiction?" by AJ McDougall

Stupid title (fanfic? RULES?) for an article that wanders into some interesting areas of the topic of "what happens when creators and other entities in the mundane world encounter fanfic."

Quote which has very little to do with the rest of the article: "Actors like Orlando Jones, Michael Sheen, and Mads Mikkelsen have all said they’ve had fun wading through [Archives of Our Own] to read stories about their characters (with Mikkelsen adding he 'tremendously' enjoyed the steamier stories he found)."

[*runs off to write some steamy fic for Mads Mikkelsen*]

Comments

[ex_flameandsong751]

with Mikkelsen adding he 'tremendously' enjoyed the steamier stories he found

OMG that's awesome 😂

[firecat]

IKR?

[stonepicnicking_okapi]

I do love your use of the word 'mundane' here. It's like Muggle or something. I have added it to my vocabulary.

Yeah, it's not time to rethink rules, it's time for Certain People to Mind Their Own Beeswax and find something else to have an opinion about.

[firecat]

“Mundane” is a science fiction fandom word and yes it’s exactly like Muggle.

[senmut]

John Rogers is also on ao3, reading and writing... the Leverage guy...

[firecat]

Aha!

(Great user icon!)

[sabotabby]

Interesting article. I am admittedly one of the old crusties who preferred it when there was a separation between fans and creators. But it's inevitable that those walls come down, given that creators all have to be interactive brands these days.

Also, I remember The Brat Queen! She wrote my favourite Angel fanfic.

[firecat]

I enjoyed being part of Babylon 5 fandom when JMS was posting in a newsgroup. But there was a strict “no story ideas” rule. That kind of interaction between fans and creators works for me. As for other kinds of interaction, including creators and actors viewing fanworks, I think it’s cool if it’s mutually consensual. (Funny how a lot of stuff boils down to that.) But creators/actors shouldn’t be forced to look at fanworks. And fans should be able to shield their works from creators (although it wouldn’t stop the determined).

[sabotabby]

Yeah, I just—don't want creators knowing about my fanworks. I'm of course a hypocrite and I want to know about fanworks that people make of my stuff! And I dream of interacting with fandom, like that's the point at which I'll feel like I Made It.

[firecat]

I hope you Make It!

[amadi]

I'm also an old crusty who prefers a separation between fandom and people in the industry overall. I think the permeability created by social media has made for some sticky situations. Creatives, especially, who write and create shows and showrun, shouldn't be reading fanfic for whatever they're actively working on, just the same way that if someone sends them a spec script unsolicited they should not even open it. But I also don't like how people feel that they have something beyond a parasocial relationship with celebrities because of twitter or whatever, which entitles them to things that they have no right to demand. It just forced a young 18 year old actor in a queer-themed show to have to come out in real life, and that's not acceptable.

[firecat]

But I also don't like how people feel that they have something beyond a parasocial relationship with celebrities

Thr issue of fans presuming too much about their relationship with creators/performers has existed as long as there have been creators and fans. But Twitter or whatever does make matters worse.

[silveradept]

There's a lot of warranted caution in crossing the streams too much, as that can make the lawsuits start coming, but I would like to believe most creators now, if they haven't come up through fanworks, recognize that they exist and are okay with their presence, so long as the streams don't get too crossed.

(Seanan McGuire, prolific author and one who came up through fandom, had said she's looking forward to diving into the fanfiction of her own series, but only when they're definitely complete and there are no more books or stories to be written about it, so as to make sure the streams don't cross.)

[firecat]

If I consider writing fiction for a book fandom I usually check if the author is OK with it, and most are, but not all.

Seanan McGuire’s attitude is great!

[silveradept]

It is an excellent attitude.

There's also at least some arguments being wrangled about whether or not the author's yes it no is important at all for doing fanworks. Obviously some, like Anne Rice, got litigious about it and controlling, but that lasted basically as long as she was alive to direct it. Anne McCaffrey laid out specific rules she wanted if people wanted to play on her sandbox officially, and it was ignored as much as respected, I suspect, and the stuff ignoring just didn't let her see it. GRRM doesn't like it, if I recall correctly, but depending on your attitude to GRRM, spiting him might be sufficient motivation to write some fanfiction.

And then there's John Rogers, who probably figured Leverage was done and had been writing on AO3 for a while now. And ND Stevenson, who seemed embarrassed to admit he'd written a fanfic of the property he was directing at the time and posted it on AO3.

There's plenty of works written by all of those creators, regardless of their attitude toward the people doing fic, so, beyond the courtesies you extend to a creator about not showing them your work unless they're very specifically seeking it out (Seanan, again, tells a story of having found an editor or agent because said editor/agent was looking for missing chapters of a Buffy fic) and other things that won't get the author into difficulties about their own work, how much does author attitude really matter toward fanworks?

[firecat]

There's also at least some arguments being wrangled about whether or not the author's yes it no is important at all for doing fanworks.

I don’t think the author has a legal or moral right to prevent fanworks of their work. (And authors who are essentially producing fanfic of their own, like Ann Rice and Chelsea Quinn Yarbro? Vampires in historical fiction? Please!) I think they have a right to express an opinion. If they don’t want fanworks and they’re unpleasant about it, I don’t write in their world because it makes me not like them as much and not to want to do anything that promotes their work (looking at you, Ann). If they don’t want fanworks and express it reasonably, I’d probably not publish fic identifiably in their worlds. One author wrote that she was OK with fanworks and wanted a disclaimer posted along with them. I thought that was reasonable too, even though I don’t think she can legally require it.

[silveradept]

Reasonable people making reasonable requests usually get them honored. (#dd don't look) The unreasonable people tend to get either no fic, because they're unreasonable, or all spite fic all the time from the percentage of fandom that intends to spite them (that fight is being fought over JKR right now.)

[firecat]

I’m in favor of JKR spitefic. (Not planning to write any myself, though.)

[silveradept]

I have written spitefic, but it was some time before everyone agreed that JKR is a TERF.

[firecat]

Ooh, I wanna see! (If you published it)

[silveradept]

The closest thing I've ever gotten to true and deliberate spitefic on JKR is The Greatest Ambition, and that can be read as something other than that, I'm sure.

[firecat]

Ahhh this is amazing!

“The greatest ambition is found in those who wish to live as they are, without fear, without pretense, and without compromise” > way to go, Hat!

Creators get to open the door to a world but they don’t get to control what happens when the rest of us get inside.

[silveradept]

I am particularly proud of that line, because it's something I thought the Hat would say, and it has layers of meaning depending on how well you know the character on the receiving side of that proclamation.

Yes, the creator gets too give us the tour of the place, but they don't get to dictate where we set ourselves up (sort of. Anne McCaffrey's rules about what had to be done to get the blessing of being an official fan club, for example, didn't stop other things from happening, just that they don't get her blessing.)

[firecat]

I agree, Hat would definitely say it.

Yup, Anne’s fanclub isn’t the world she showed us, just a particular corner of it.