Opinions!

[firecat]

I did this on Usenet once and got some interesting answers. If I can find the thread in Gooja I will post it in a couple of days.
ETA: I made a comment in this post about what happened on Usenet.

I have had the following in my quote file for a long time. I don't know whether it is an accurate quote or not, but I like it.

Joshu is my favorite Zen Master. It is said that a monk once asked him, To be holy -- what is it like?" Joshu replied, "To dump a mountain of shit on a clean plain." -- Dick Sutphen

What do you think Joshu means?

(X-posted to buddhists)

Comments

[kmd.livejournal.com]

I'm feeling the need to dump a mountain of shit on the idea that some people are good and some people are evil.

;-)

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Ted Kaszynski? The Unabomber? People who kidnap, rape, and torture children? The four men who drugged, gang-raped, and mutilated a young woman in Indiana, videotaped themselves doing it, and got off scot-free? Thrill killers? Timothy McVeigh? I don't have any problem at all thinking of those people as evil. They know what they do is wrong*, and they make a deliberate choice to do it anyhow.

* Don't even think about comparing this to homosexuality in the eyes of Christianists. That's an entirely different (and completely subjective) definition of "wrong".

[kmd.livejournal.com]

I don't dispute that people do some truly evil things. But no matter what a person has done -- really, truly, no matter what -- I can't say that the person is evil.

That is decidedly *not* to say that judicial systems should respond to acts of evil as momentary lapses of judgment, as aberrations in a person's life. I think all of the people you listed should probably spend their lives in jail.

And the homosexuality thing with some Christians (and some Muslims, and some Jews, and some Hindus...) is just naked homophobia with a fig leaf of religion thrown on top to justify it. IMAAESHO.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

At this point we're going to have to agree to disagree, then. I am convinced that there people who are genuinely evil, some by birth (the true sociopath, which is fortunately quite rare) and most by choice (such as those I mentioned above). I also believe that once a person has chosen to dedicate their life to the dark path, genuine repentance (as opposed to "finding God" as a way to get out of prison) is so rare that it should not be considered a real possibility in our treatment of these people.

define: evil

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

or maybe you need to define your terms first; for all i can tell you're not even talking about the same thing

i always wonder what people mean by "evil". especially those don't follow a religion where evil is an active force in opposition to god. when i lost my faith, i had to rethink a whole lot of terminology (and the reasoning behind it).

Re: define: evil

[kmd.livejournal.com]

This is where my brain was going. What is the use of the term "evil?" Why do we need it? Why do we use it?

For me, it is a purely religious term. And I was all ready to post a link to the very best book I ever read about evil, Raging With Compassion by John Swinton. But then I realized that book is completely immersed in Christian theology and terminology. The author's explanations and discussions are impossible to separate from his theology.

So I began to wonder what is the secular use of the word. What good is gained, what need answered, by calling a person or an act "evil?"

I don't know.