Thoughts about Buddhism

[firecat]

trixtah discusses Buddhism, and I made a comment, reproduced here (edited slightly).

I consider myself a Buddhist in the same tradition as Sri Lankan Buddhism, although my studies are all with Western teachers, who probably have a different understanding of it than native Sri Lankans.

My studies lead me to believe that "desire causes suffering" is a simplistic view of the first tenet of Buddhism. The way my teachers describe it, it's not desire per se that causes suffering but clinging to expectations that things should be or will always be the way you want. There's nothing wrong with desire or fulfillment.

My take on "The world is illusion": It is less a statement about physical reality and more about the fact that we experience the world entirely through our senses and minds, so everything we end up perceiving is filtered through our beliefs, experience, emotions, biology, etc. The result is that some of what a person perceives is the same as what other people perceive (because we share certain sense organs and biological tendencies) and some of what a person perceives is very different from what other people perceive, because of their different vantage point, different past experience, different biology, etc.

My understanding of the Buddhist tenet that NooAge translates into "we create our own reality" is: our state of mind influences our experience and we can change our state of mind (not instantaneously, not by simply "deciding," but through practice), hence, we can influence our experience.

I've experienced the above in my own studies and practice. But nirvana, I haven't experienced. Nirvana is not a goal for me. I keep practicing and studying because I've had benefits from doing so, and I figure I might as well continue. (I don't know if this take on the whole thing "counts" as Buddhist or not. I like to think it does.)

What I find fascinating about "nirvana" is all the different ways people talk and write about it and about the various states of mind they experience between here and there.

Comments

[19_crows]

That's my understanding of "desire causes suffering" too. Desire is fine, but we aren't going to fulfill all our desires, and how we respond to that determines whether we suffer or not.

[flarenut]

Yeah, the strong form of the "we create our own reality" bit always makes me very angry. (Which I guess impedes my progress.)

I like your take on nirvana -- although I might argue that nirvana sort of has to be a side effect rather than a goal.

[firecat]

I feel very angry when I think the strong form is being used uncompassionately and judgementally. I feel frustrated when I think it's being used in order to avoid complexity.

Anger takes up all my energy and then there's no energy left over toward concentrating and paying attention.

I agree nirvana would have to be a side effect.

[urocyon]

I feel very angry when I think the strong form is being used uncompassionately and judgementally. I feel frustrated when I think it's being used in order to avoid complexity.

*nods* I keep getting distracted by the anger and frustration, but have been trying to apply some compassion there, too. (It's hard sometimes, oh my, especially when the behavior is interfering with other people's wellbeing.) The NooAgey version of that, while also making things difficult for other people, is a major distraction for the people espousing it. If we're totally creating reality in the way a lot of people insist, hey, we obviously have to try to tamper with it and drag it around to the way we want it to be. That just doesn't work past a certain point, and trying to do that doesn't even make people very happy. More tail-chasing dukkha, right there. In a lot of cases, it strikes me as just more rugged individualism in pseudo-Buddhist drag.

Disclaimer: I combine Buddhism with Taoist and largely-Iroquoian influences, in a vaguely Ch'an-like way that mostly works for me. (Weird a mishmash as it might sound on the surface.) So my take on things is based in that.

I sort of go back and forth between seeing things pretty much in the way you describe, and more as a hologram my mind is projecting (frequently as a combo--dualism probably doesn't apply here, either). I guess I'm sort of reality agnostic. But, sort of like the existence or otherwise of gods, it just doesn't make a lot of practical difference, and concentrating too much on it can be a distraction in itself. On a day-to-day basis, we're dealing with a world that's filtered through our perceptions and various mental constructions. All we can reasonably do is try to perceive and deal with it more clearly, and try for some balance.

I agree nirvana would have to be a side effect.

I've started seeing nirvana, duyukta, and not perceiving separation from the Tao as pretty much different ways of describing and approaching at least very similar states. And not so much as a side effect, as an ongoing process--but definitely one of those "focus on trying to find it, you'll just end up confusing yourself more" kinds of things.

Interesting post, BTW. :)

[firecat]

When I think people are harming others or me, compassion helps sometimes so that I feel protective anger less intensely. Other times I end up feeling both anger and compassion, and that tends to also go with a lot of frustration.

just more rugged individualism in pseudo-Buddhist drag.

Totally! Great metaphor. (I am seeing Monty Python's lumberjacks in Buddhist robes.)

I combine Buddhism with Taoist and largely-Iroquoian influences, in a vaguely Ch'an-like way that mostly works for me.

That sounds fascinating!

I like the way your mind works!

[flarenut]

just more rugged individualism in pseudo-Buddhist drag

Long ago, a closed-captioning system came up with the phrase "Jack Buddhist thugs".

[urocyon]

Other times I end up feeling both anger and compassion, and that tends to also go with a lot of frustration.

Oh my, yes. But, my mind sometimes seems like a one-trick pony with the anger. (Which must have seemed easier to live with than fear or worry, though that really hasn't worked out too well in the long run.) At any rate, just knowing that's a fairly predictable response pattern makes it seem less pressing. *shakes head*

I am seeing Monty Python's lumberjacks in Buddhist robes.

Now I can't stop seeing that. ;)

[firecat]

knowing that's a fairly predictable response pattern makes it seem less pressing.

Yes. My go-to emotion is anxiety. I wake up every morning worried about what I have to do that day, but so far I manage to get up anyway. This paradoxically helps me on days where I actually have to do something scary—the thing itself might be challenging but the emotions are familiar.

[mithriltabby]

I like Brad Warner’s “hardcore Zen” perspective: what gets translated as “suffering” is more the dissonance between how you think the world ought to be and how the world is. You might not be able to escape physical pain, but you can set aside your own illusions and expectations, and deal with reality as it is and move forward.

[19-crows.livejournal.com]

I already commented over on DW but I agree with slothman.

[stardustnprison.livejournal.com]

I don't think it matters if you're "buddhist" about every single belief of goal. I'm certainly not a cookie cutter buddhist. I have some beliefs that are rather un-buddhist (not in a bad way just that I happen to mainly believe in many, many buddhist things but I also believe in things that I've come across in previous religious/philisophical studies). I am curious as to why nirvana is not a goal of yours. When I was first learning about Buddhism, one of the biggest things that attracted me about it is the idea that we're encouraged to examine and question all teachings with a discerning eye and even with skepticism should our perceptions deem it necessary. As a result, I guess you could say it'd be rather unbuddhist to just swallow everything we're taught like a pill without stopping to think about whether we actually agree with it. Thats my opinion anyway.

[firecat]

I am curious as to why nirvana is not a goal of yours.

I don't tend to do long-term goals right now.

I don't understand it well enough to know if I want to make it a goal.

I get the impression that striving for it makes it more elusive, and I feel like making it a goal would cause me to strive for it.

I'm agnostic about whether it exists, and I don't want to make a personal goal of something that might not exist.

My goal is to continue my practice and studies and see what happens.

When I was first learning about Buddhism, one of the biggest things that attracted me about it is the idea that we're encouraged to examine and question all teachings

That attracted me too. Buddhist teachings include a lot of very wise things about the state of mind we call doubt. (Including that if we are going to doubt, we should also doubt our doubt.)

[stardustnprison.livejournal.com]

You have some really good points. Thats kind of how I feel about the devas of Buddhism. I have no idea if they exist and at this point anyway, I really don't care if they exist. I don't think it makes me unbuddhist because it really isn't dependent on the principles that buddhism teaches to promote compassion and live a better life. Its just a part of buddhism that exists, I guess, but I don't feel the need to embrace or acknowlege. I'm not closed to the possibility but we all have to do what makes sense for us.