firecat

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/apr/09/spring-makeover-decluttering-burkeman

Subtitle: Does clutter indicate a spiritual burden—or a full life?

It's common in this culture to ascribe moral value to concepts such as "eating right" (you're immoral if you don't) and "health" (you're immoral if you're not). Personal clutter is also considered to have moral aspects (you're immoral if you have too much stuff or don't have your stuff put away).

I've rejected the idea that a person's worthiness are related to what they eat and how healthy they are. But I haven't worked as hard on questioning the moral judgement on having a lot of stuff. So I like this:

"clutter" is inherently subjective, denoting a certain kind of problematic relationship between you and your things, rather than things themselves. [...] A home full of things can signify a full life. Clutter exists only when those things exert a mental drag, or get in the way of living. [...]

By the same token, there's nothing morally superior about the severe lines or vast white spaces of ultra-minimalist apartments.

The article goes on to quote Thoreau:

"The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call 'life' that is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run," is how Henry David Thoreau, everyone's favourite 19th-century hut-dwelling minimalist, expressed the sense that owning things constitutes a spiritual burden.

I really like the quote. And that viewpoint also at the core of books such as Your Money or Your Life that encourage you to think about what your job really pays and what it really costs, not just about the number on your paycheck.

But is Thoreau's statement (out of context) necessarily about "spiritual burden"? There's a lot of relief in getting stuff done that was hanging over my head, and getting rid of stuff that was getting in the way, but relief isn't a spiritual feeling. There's also a feeling of relief when I am able to hold certain mental and behavior patterns more lightly. But that's not a spiritual feeling either.

What does approach a spiritual feeling, for me, is what I can do when the stuff isn't in my way. I can open up and appreciate so much more of what's out there. (Not everyone would call this a spiritual feeling, though.)

Crossposts: http://firecat.livejournal.com/706376.html

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From:

maize

I find that clutter is a practical burden on me, which I find it hard not to interpret as a personal moral failing, even when I don't interpret it that way for all others. The practical burden on me is that when things are quite cluttered (and my desk at work often is, so I experience this often), I experience it like a continuous noise -- the presence of all that stuff jars my nerves. When my area is tidy, I find it soothing and relaxing. I think it's an attention thing -- it's like all the different objects are clamoring for my attention. It tends to interrupt my focus. But there's no reason that that practical experience for me should extend to a moral judgment. There could be an argument that I'm not doing a good job of caring for myself if my spaces are cluttered, given that observation. However, for other people, if they don't experience clutter that way, the same argument doesn't apply.

I think another part of the moral picture, for me, though, comes from the idea of things being used. From an ecological and a privilege standpoint, I have difficulty owning lots of objects that I don't use. Now, I use a lot of things, so this doesn't mean that I need to live in an austere modernist wasteland to accomodate that. But if I buy something and wind up not using it, I feel that as a weight on me. Partly that's because it took resources to make that thing, and by not using it, I'm creating a need for additional resources to be spent to make more of that thing (or a substitute if it's not in production anymore), presuming that not everybody's need for that thing is met. The privilege aspect comes from the opportunity created. If I've bought a thing and found that I don't use it, I can give it away for free, or sell it for much less than what I paid for it, which enables somebody who might not have been able to afford one at full price to have access to it. So when I hang on to those things, I feel an opportunity cost for not making that happen.

I dunno if that makes sense? Anyway, those are the ways I tend to relate to clutter and having lots of objects.

The thing that causes me the most trouble grappling with making moral judgments both of myself and of others is when I see myself or others compulsively buying things for which I can't imagine there being either an immediate use or a long-term use. An example was when I went to

eeyorerin's house and saw that her partner had bought a huge number of, to give one example, 802.11b network adapters for laptops, which were all sitting in the box and shrink-wrap, never opened. Not only did neither of them have a laptop that was compatible with them (although there were a number of old laptops in the house which were), but if they suddenly had a need for a network adapter, it's a commodity that you could go out and buy trivially, and the likelihood is, knowing both of them, that they would have rather bought a new one at a higher speed rather than using one of those old 802.11b one. That sort of thing does bother me, and I'm not sure if it should or not. I have an immediate reaction that I shouldn't be judging other people, but I'm not sure.

There's been some interesting discussion of hoarders vs. couponers in light of a recent television show about "extreme" coupon users.

From:

firecat

I feel the same way about the "noise" of things that are in the way.

Also I feel more angry about clutter if I am stressed in other ways.

Noodling:

Why does whether a person is "caring for zirself" carry a moral charge? I mean, that's huge these days, but I think it's a somewhat recent notion of what morality consists of.

I think another part of the moral picture, for me, though, comes from the idea of things being used.

That makes sense. I find that a lot of my clutter that I stress about doesn't fall into the category of stuff I can give away to others, because it's out of date or flawed/broken.

The thing that causes me the most trouble grappling with making moral judgments both of myself and of others is when I see myself or others compulsively buying things for which I can't imagine there being either an immediate use or a long-term use.

I don't judge this as a moral issue because I don't know where the line is between "compulsive buying" and "the hobby of collecting." And because I know acquiring stuff is a way some people deal with emotional issues, maybe issues of having grown up in an unpredictable environment or having grown up poor. And it seems like a mostly non-harmful way to deal with issues.

(Seeing what eeyorerin had to deal with when her partner moved out and left her with all the junk, that makes me mad. But more because dumping your stuff on someone else is wrong, than because having stuff is wrong.)