About that parallel you're drawing...

[firecat]

I have seen multiple posts about depression recently that compare it to diabetes and say something like "You wouldn't expect a diabetic to go without their insulin, right? Well you shouldn't expect a depressed person to 'just cheer up.'"

Here's the thing. There is lots of shaming of diabetics for being on meds or insulin. A lot of people think diabetes is a "lifestyle disease" and that one can choose whether to have it and how to treat it. There is probably considerable overlap between people with that view and the ones who think depression is a bad mood or a selfish play for attention.

I appreciate the attempt to educate people about depression and I'm not criticizing any particular person or post, but I'm thinking some other comparison would probably work better to get the point across that depression is a very difficult condition to manage.

Comments

[lilacsigil]

This is absolutely true. I've also seen a lot of awareness raising for Type 1 diabetes that relies on "we're not the BAD diabetes that you bring on yourself!" which is especially silly considering the genetic components in both.

There's also the "If it was cancer, depression would be treated with respect and proper research!" which, ha ha, no. There's shaming of people seeking diagnosis, shaming of "lifestyle choices" especially for people with lung cancer, and shaming of survivors for not being healthy and inspiring.

[shehasathree]

<3

[firecat]

Yes absolutely to both points.

[johnpalmer]

Nod. I've heard that twin studies show that if one twin has it, there's an 80% chance that the other does.

Now, an interesting thing is that some people do low carb diets. And some people exercise - a lot. I wonder if we were able to exclude both of those from the statistics if we'd see the correlation go even higher.

(A low carb diet doesn't exactly *prevent* diabetes, but it can prevent you from having any symptoms or problems, and prevent it from being detected. Heavy exercise may be the same way - or may be preventative. It's hard because we don't quite know what diabetes *is*, we just see its effects, an inability to control blood sugar.)

(ETA: Technically, we do sometimes know what diabetes is. e.g., some people have their insulin producing cells start to die. Well, we know what *that* is. And we have a name for blood sugar increasing when there's plenty of insulin present - "insulin resistance" - but I think that's just descriptive. I could be wrong - I'm not too up on the latest research.)

[shehasathree]

As someone who has spent more years depressed than i care to remember, and who has just been diagnosed with "probable diabetes" (more tests tomorrow), THIS. My GP *knows* i have been having enormous trouble eating enough (and absorbing what i do eat) for the past 5 months, and still told me to lose weight (probably by eating less). wtf.

[firecat]

GRRR.

I know of a couple of good fat-accepting diabetes forums, if you are interested.

Not having to take steroids and getting proper treatment for extremely stressful health conditions will help a person's blood sugar a lot more than losing weight will.

[shehasathree]

No kidding! /o\
Fat-accepting diabetes forums sounds lovely. I'm kind of not-looking at things right now (i've got at least another two days until my follow-up GP appointment of not being *officially* diabetic to go yet), but i suspect i will want to read a lot soon.

[firecat]

Cool. I sometimes can't keep up with DW so PM me when you want resources. Good luck with tomorrow!

[shehasathree]

Thank-you. :)

Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

I think people underestimate how often any chronic disease gets picked on, even physical ones.

Re: Well...

[firecat]

Yeah, I agree.

Re: Well...

[jenk]

Indeed. I've had people argue that incense and weed can't affect my asthma because "it's not toxic like tobacco." YES. So does woodsmoke. Sorry to upset your worldview.

OTOH, I've had people looking at me disdainfully for panting while walking uphill change expressions when I pull out the asthma inhaler - "Oh, I thought she was just fat, she has breathing problems."

Re: Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> Indeed. I've had people argue that incense and weed can't affect my asthma because "it's not toxic like tobacco." YES. So does woodsmoke. Sorry to upset your worldview. <<

Some of my friends have had asthma, and used to carry a list of established triggers. Over the last year I've added a character with that challenge, and I did some research. I was intrigued to discover that not only was the list of triggers longer, but some things were now acknowledged that we had identified as triggers but nobody would ever believe -- including laughter. Basically anything in the air that is not oxygen, carbon dioxide, nitrogen, or noble gases can be a trigger.

>> OTOH, I've had people looking at me disdainfully for panting while walking uphill change expressions when I pull out the asthma inhaler - "Oh, I thought she was just fat, she has breathing problems." <<

It's nice that some people can get a clue.

Re: Well...

[firecat]

"It's OK to breathe audibly if you have asthma, but not if you're fat" is only half a clue, if that.

Re: Well...

[ysabetwordsmith]

True. I see far more people being intolerant and unsupportive of others' needs than I see compassion. It's frustrating.

[janetmiles]

Epilepsy, maybe?

[adrian_turtle]

Epilepsy, too. I'm not sure there's ANY disease that people don't get blamed for (I mean, aren't expected to take personal responsibility for having or not-curing), at least sometimes. Though it's more common with some diseases than others, and problems that begin in childhood are usually blamed on parents rather than the person who actually has the disease.

[flarenut]

I think this is right, at least at this point in time/place. Victim-blaming is in, and it's a great way to deflect from how human-hostile our current society is.

[johnpalmer]

Maybe. Simple and complex partial seizures, especially, could probably cause some odd behaviors that could lead to blaming.

I'm pondering - if I have simple temporal lobe seizures, it might by why some of my emotional moments have been so hideous. And I know that some people (you, certainly) would be compassionate. But I know others would be seriously icked by it. And some would say that I shouldn't expose others to it. You know, not shameful if it happens, as long as it happens behind closed doors.

[silveradept]

I have yet to understand why people believe that any disease or syndrome is automatically "lifestyle" until proven to them otherwise.

[firecat]

Yes, and I think if the condition doesn't involve harming others, it shouldn't matter whether it's lifestyle.

(And "has to pay more taxes" does not count as harm that any individual is doing.)

[johnpalmer]

Well... sometimes it's because it would seem that it has to be, to them. And sometimes it might point at something they're struggling with.

My ex-wife was tired or fatigued a lot of the time. I *despised* this... because I was fatigued all the time. I think I had a harder time recognizing that she might not be able to help it because I was struggling so hard to carry on in spite of fatigue. Would I have felt the same if I had plenty of energy? I honestly don't know. But I know the issue that I *wanted* to be able to collapse and rest for a bit made for some extra bitterness in my thoughts.

(ETA: "It has to be, for them"... if you're not depressed, you may not have any idea how someone could be so mopey - if *you* were so mopey, it would be lifestyle - a choice. This can sometimes be the hinge were the door to understanding can open. "So you would never, ever choose to be that way, because if you did, you'd hate yourself and feel like crap to boot, right? So wouldn't it be awfully stupid to do that - unless there was something broken making it happen? What if there *is* something broken making it happen?")

[adrian_turtle]

I believe it's because people want to think they have so much control over their lives they can protect themselves from sickness by doing everything right. That's not the way the world works. But if my neighbor brought disease on herself by eating the wrong things, or taking the wrong medicine, or using the wrong dental fillings, I will be safe if I am careful enough. It's not as scary as living in a dangerous world where bad things just *happen* sometimes.

[ironed_orchid]

This is exactly how many people seem to think.

[nellorat.livejournal.com]

The blaming of people with diabetes is definitely variable: it certainly happens more the fatter one is, and less the older one is.

This makes me think that the same must happen with blaming for depression, but with different variables--but I'm not sure what the variables are.

For me, my Hashimoto's disease is a great comparison: no one blames me because my immune system for some reason destroyed my thyroid; as long as I take medication, I'm fine, but if not, I'm completely f*cked.

However, not only do few people know what Hashimoto's disease is, but I'm very lucky that Effexor works as well for me as thyroxin. I know that some people end up more like me on diabetes meds--it's a help, but life is still a constant low-level struggle to make up for what should be natural--and some never find even a decent choice of meds.

Interesting tie-in to supergee's link about Russian psychiatric drugs that aren't known about in the USA.

[houseboatonstyx.livejournal.com]

What comparisons would you suggest? My diabetic friend's doctor got him to accept Buproprion as a permanent daily need, by saying that just as his body will never make all of the insulin he needs, it also will never make all of the [whatever] that Buproprion supplies. But that each of these drugs can turn a disruptive illness into a routinely manageable one.

[firecat]

Yeah, I'm not saying no one should ever make the comparison in any circumstances, but depending on the audience, it might not be as effective as one would assume.

And I don't have anything to suggest in its place; over on the Dreamwidth version of this post people have been saying that every disease gets blamed on the person who has it, and/or on their parents, because that's what the culture is like right now.

[houseboatonstyx.livejournal.com]

It definitely depends on the audience!

Lately I've been hanging out around some charming Utilitarians, so what comes to my mind on such questions is, among each audience, who would be helped and how much, vs who would be hurt, and how much.

Looking at worst cases, if comparison with depression makes a diabetic refuse insulin, soon he will end up in the hospital, and have plenty more chances to be pursuaded. But if a depressed person refuses to take anti-depressives, he may fall into such drastic action that he has no more chances.