"midlife" stuff

[firecat]

If you're maybe noticing that you're older than you used to be, and are feeling sad/angry/confused/worried/frustrated that you haven't accomplished as much as you/other people in your present or past/annoyingly critical voices inside your head think you should have, and if you're maybe feeling something like "I'm not a real grownup like everyone else," and if you're maybe also feeling sad/angry/confused/worried/frustrated that your body isn't working the way it used to, and you're maybe thinking, "if that's true then how am I going to DO all those accomplishments that I/other people/voices in my head think I ought or want to do?", and maybe you're also wondering how are you going to dig out from under the accumulation of habit and procrastination and self-doubt to some sense of satisfaction in your life again, then post this same sentence in your journal.

Friends keep saying stuff like that where I can see it, and I've been feeling it for a while now too. One said it really well in a friends-locked post:

It's been hard for the last some-odd months, with my age catching up to me, not to feel that I've been a continual failure in school, work, and my personal life. ...

I've been trying so hard to hide from my friends -- most of them not very close, even if they were before -- the fact that I'm not in their league in any sense of the word. ...

Come to think of it, I don't do yard work because I'm afraid of being looked at/judged by passersby. I don't do artwork because I'm afraid of ill-judgment and meaningless or worthless praise. This has gotten as bad as it ever was in the worst years of my adolescence. Worse, because I don't have the energy or the twenty years ahead of me to think I have plenty of time yet to pull myself out of it.

It was a revelation to read this, especially the part about "as bad as it ever was in the worst years of my adolescence," because that's exactly what bugs me about the similar feelings I have—"WTF? I thought I was DONE with these feelings of self-consciousness. No one told me they would come back, dammit! I thought 'mid-life crisis' just meant you went out and got your virtual red sports car and had done with it."

When a whole bunch of my friends and acquaintances are having similar uncomfortable feelings, and especially when each one is having these feelings privately and feeling shame about it because it seems like no one else has them, I ask myself whether there's some kind of cultural pressure going on, and I ask myself whether maybe we would do better examining these tendencies and pressures together, so we can figure out where we stand, and which of the beliefs and tendencies to embrace, and which to say pbtpbtpbtpbt!!!! to.

I wonder how that could be accomplished.

Do you have those feelings? Could you use a way to talk about those feelings with other folks who struggle with them?

Comments

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

No, not really. I was quite successful before I got sick, and I didn't cause any of the diseases, so I don't feel responsible for them. I think considering how sick I am, I'm pretty successful now, too.

Why do I feel like this compared to some of you? Some ideas:

I've never wanted kids.

I'm happy living alone and being alone and decided years ago that a partner would probably bring more trouble than benefit.

I had a high-level position and a large income when I got sick, so I've had that.

I find beadweaving meditative and I think that calms me in general.

I have cats that love me.

[firecat]

I've never wanted kids.

Me neither.

I'm happy living alone and being alone and decided years ago that a partner would probably bring more trouble than benefit.

I have a partner I live with and some I don't live with, so we're different there. But where we're similar I think is that I'm happy with how my relationships are going.

I had a high-level position and a large income when I got sick, so I've had that.

I had that at one point, then I quit because I was bored. I don't really care to have it again.

I find beadweaving meditative and I think that calms me in general.

I find knitting meditative and calming.

I have cats that love me.

Me too!

[bastette-joyce.livejournal.com]

I really liked this post.

I never wanted kids either, and I have no regrets about not having had them. However, sometimes I hear a guilt voice in my head telling me that because I didn't have kids, I'm stunted emotionally and spiritually. I never had to experience the self-sacrifice required for childrearing, and as a result I'm still a selfish little child in an older body.

This is quite different from feeling sad because I didn't get to enjoy children. It's more like, "Damn, I should have flossed - now my teeth are falling out." I just wonder (and fear) whether I have deprived myself of an important part of human growth by choosing not to have kids.

Of course, that is a profoundly stupid reason to have kids, so perhaps I shouldn't feel so bad.

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

I managed our house -- "parenting" my mother, father, and brother -- starting when I was eight. I've always figured I've had kids, which only solidified my desire not to have kids of my own.

[bastette-joyce.livejournal.com]

Oh, well there you go. If I didn't grow up at all, you grew up too soon. You've already paid your debt!

I could just tell, when I was young, that I would find a child's demands for my attention to be too much a burden on me. Plus, I never wanted to make a commitment to anything that I couldn't get out of fairly easily. You don't have a kid and then, a few years later, decide, "I was into that at the time, but now I want to move on to something else."

So, perhaps I'm not the most giving and maternal person on the earth, but at least I had the sense to know that I'd make a lousy parent, so I chose not to inflict myself on an innocent child. (My mother was the same way, and I suffered for it. I wouldn't want someone else to go through that, especially because of me!)

[firecat]

I just wonder (and fear) whether I have deprived myself of an important part of human growth by choosing not to have kids.

I have that voice too, although it isn't all that loud. Here are some of the arguments I muster against it:

I haven't climbed Mt Everest either, that doesn't mean I've deprived myself an important part of human growth. I don't think I agree with the concept of 'human growth' anyway. It implies there are certain milestones that a person must reach or they aren't human. I can think of some milestones like that, but they're all very basic like talking or walking. And even so, there are people who don't do one of those things, but I think they're still human. I think you need to be missing lots of human experiences to count as not human. Maybe sociopaths, for example, aren't human.

I haven't chosen to have a sex change, does that mean I've deprived myself of the important human growth experience of living as a man? Men have a different experience of childrearing than women; does that automatically make them selfish little children in older bodies? [I know some people think so, but I don't.]

If I really want to experience various aspects of child rearing, I can become a child care worker or a nanny or a children's hospital nurse or volunteer or I can babysit for family members or tutor children or join an organization that benefits children by working with them directly or be a good aunt to my nibling. True, I can no longer experience pregnancy, but there are lots of women who never get pregnant or don't make it through a whole pregnancy and that doesn't make them selfish or less than human.

Besides, most of the sociobiologists think that it's important for human communities to have people around who don't have children of their own, that those people have been important to children's and the communities' survival as much as the people who reproduce their genes directly. (And with the number of kids my cousins popped out, my genes are reproduced in the next generation, so I don't need to worry about that bit.)

And finally, some of the parents I know are incredibly selfish (not anyone reading this, mind).

[bastette-joyce.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I disagree with the specifics of most of what you've said in this comment. But I do agree with the overall gist of it, which is that there are many ways to experience growth, and that having children isn't the only one.

I haven't climbed Mt Everest either, that doesn't mean I've deprived myself an important part of human growth.

Well, this is a personal value judgement of mine, but I think the kind of human growth (I'm talking emotional/psychological/ spiritual growth here) one can get from child-rearing is more important than what one can get from climbing Mt. Everest, although I do admit that intense physical challenges can certainly be major growth experiences (witness Outward Bound and other such programs).

I don't mean to make pronouncements for all of humanity - I just seem to have internalized this particular recording.

I don't think I agree with the concept of 'human growth' anyway. It implies there are certain milestones that a person must reach or they aren't human.

Hmm.. I certainly never said that one needed to experience certain kinds of growth to become human. We're all born human. But I've heard enough people who've been parents say things like, "Parenting changes you. You really have to put someone else's needs before your own, over and over for years." If you don't become a parent, that doesn't mean you're not human, and I'm not sure where you're getting that idea. However, it is one way that people can mature as they grow older, which I have chosen not to partake of. For that reason I see myself as not having matured in that way. And I feel sort of guilty about that, although that guilt is outweighed by the knowledge that I probably would've screwed up any kids I might have had. :)

I haven't chosen to have a sex change, does that mean I've deprived myself of the important human growth experience of living as a man?

Again, my bias. I see having children as a more basic experience for most people (who are not transgendered) than having a sex change. I've never ridden in a spaceship either, and I don't feel guilty about that. :)

If I really want to experience various aspects of child rearing, I can become a child care worker or a nanny or...

Absolutely. This is a bit of a corollary to my main guilt about not being unselfish enough to have kids: I also don't have any relationships with kids who aren't mine. I've never fostered kids. I have two nephews and a niece, and haven't had much of a relationship with them. Several of my friends have had kids - I haven't been very connected to them. I really don't have much interest in that. And the reason is because I find kids very draining to be around. They take and take and don't give much. Of course, that's how kids are. I just don't find that a very rewarding interaction. (And I know that kids can give back enormous amounts of love, but you have to invest a lot before you get to that stage with a child. I have never been willing to make that commitment.)

True, I can no longer experience pregnancy, but there are lots of women who never get pregnant or don't make it through a whole pregnancy and that doesn't make them selfish or less than human.

I was talking about raising a child. My nasty little inner voice does not care whether the child I "should" have had was biologically mine or not.

Besides, most of the sociobiologists think that it's important for human communities to have people around who don't have children of their own, that those people have been important to children's and the communities' survival

I like this point. It's true that most communities do have childless people who perform other vital functions. (I'm pretty leery of sociobiologists, given that E.O. Wilson has used it to justify sexism, but I can't disagree with this.)

And finally, some of the parents I know are incredibly selfish (not anyone reading this, mind).

Yes, well. There's certainly no guarantee that the experience of parenthood will help you mature to the point that you can meet your child's needs properly. I had parents like that!

[firecat]

I think it wasn't clear that I was mentioning arguments that work on the voices inside my own head, not disagreeing with your views (or the views of your guilt-trip) on the value of childrearing vs. other things. So it's the inside of my own head that says "You don't have kids, therefore you're not really human" and I argue back.

[bastette-joyce.livejournal.com]

I think it wasn't clear that I was mentioning arguments that work on the voices inside my own head, not disagreeing with your views (or the views of your guilt-trip) on the value of childrearing vs. other things. So it's the inside of my own head that says "You don't have kids, therefore you're not really human" and I argue back.

Ah, I see. Yes, I misunderstood that.

<letelier>Never mind.</letelier>

Wow, that pretty harsh - not human? Eww, I'm sorry you somehow got that message. :( Mine is "you're selfish and immature", but I do at least get to be human. :)