Anteing up on the Boobie project

[firecat]

I was intending to give this idea the attention I thought it deserved (none) but so many folks on my flist are talking about it that I feel pressured to put in two cents.

(See how easy it is for some people to feel social pressure? No one is even standing over me asking me to wear a button or asking to feel my boobs. People are just writing about it.)

So:

It's fun to break social rules when you're among friends and people you trust in a relatively safe space. Sounds like the original incident was like that, and that's great.

I object to the "Project" aspect of it. I don't want entire SF cons to become spaces where I feel pressured to walk around advertising my willingness, or lack thereof, to be felt up.

I have some more personal reactions that I may put into a flocked post.

Comments

[sistercoyote.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Also, don't feel obligated to say anything ever just because everyone else is talking about it. Say what's important to you. :)

[firecat]

Yeah, I don't really feel obligated, but I do feel pressured. And it seemed relevant to the subject, since so many folks promoting the boob project are acting like it doesn't create any pressure. It's really easy for some people to feel social pressure.

[sistercoyote.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you've been back to Serene's post, but I've been heavily involved in the discussion there, and totally agree with you about social pressure. I've been accused of being puritan and a prude among other things.

So, uh, to finish my thought (much later), I'm wanting to withdraw my opinions and tell them they're all right.

[firecat]

Grr. Also ow.

[sistercoyote.livejournal.com]

So the grr is about the puritan/prude thing I'm guessing. I appreciate the sentiment, but in general that's one of the few "insults" I can shrug off thinking "if they really knew me..."

What's ow for, though. Wanting to recant because I feel out of place?

[firecat]

They're because I think the main people arguing with you in Serene's post were being thoughtless turds, toward you and in general ("well, just look elsewhere" especially annoyed me) and because feeling social pressure to pretend to believe something you don't (assuming that's what you meant by withdraw your opinions and tell them they're right) sucks.

[tiger-spot.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything after the "So".

And now the vague sense of "perhaps I should weigh in here somewhere" is gone. Yay!

[firecat]

Yay!

[cynthia1960.livejournal.com]

You're right, the "Project" part systematizes this kind of ill-mannered public behavior.

[usqueba.livejournal.com]

It's been swirling around in my head. My initial thought was, "Just cause I don't want to be groped by most people doesn't mean anything. It just means I don't want to". I'm fine with the way I look, I'm comfortable with my body, sexuality, etc.

[firecat]

I may or may not be fine with all of those things, but I don't want to wear a button that basically invites people to wonder whether I am fine with those things.

[ona-tangent.livejournal.com]

My problem with it is the attitude that you don't have to participate if you are unwilling. If I'm walking down a hall and someone asks if they can feel me up or if I have to walk past the "project", bam. Then you've already made me participate even if the answer is no or that my involvement was minimal.

[ETA: I agree with the first part. It was a group of friends and a safe space. That's great. And if were just friends and a safe space I might even participate. It's the people who aren't going to get the friends/safe space thing that can potentially make this "project" uncomfortable.]

[sistercoyote.livejournal.com]

Yes yes yes!

[firecat]

I wouldn't have a problem with an "open source boob project" room party, because you don't have to attend such a party and it doesn't make the whole con into a space where you have to contend with groping in some way or another.

(Watch, or avert your eyes from, or advertise your availability for or lack thereof.)

[ona-tangent.livejournal.com]

I could get behind a room party. Ferrett just posted an update on his original post. I'm in the middle of reading it now, but it seems like he might get it, which is good because I usually like his posts.

[firecat]

Thanks, it sounds like he and I agree on the appropriate scope for boob handling.

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

Your description of walking down a hall reminds me of working in my first companies. I once seriously injured a guy after he groped me for the third time (I'd told him seriously no the first two, and figured I should act on the third).

[webmaven.livejournal.com]

This sounds (at an absolute minimum) rather creepy. Can you point to a post that provides more background? Google isn't giving me anything for "Boobie Project" on LJ except this post.

[firecat]

Try searching for "Open Source Boob Project."

Original post:
http://theferrett.livejournal.com/1087686.html

He has published some updates where he backpedals on the idea.

[webmaven.livejournal.com]

Umm. Suffice it to say that I'm glad he retracted it as an idea suitable for widespread implementation in public spaces. Also, Greasemonkey and 'LJ Thread Unfolder' rock.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Egad. Just... no.

As he points out, doing this privately, among a group of trusted friends, is one thing. But a whole con? Fuck. That. Shit.