The assumptions, they burns us

[firecat]

This article was linked in a flocked post on my flist and I decided to bitch about it here rather than spewing venom all over my friend's LJ.

"Why The Smartest People Have The Toughest Time Dating"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-alex-benzer/why-the-smartest-people-h_b_169939.html

First off, I know plenty of smart people who have no trouble dating. The fact that there is a stereotype of a certain kind of smart person having trouble dating does not mean that all smart people therefore have trouble dating.

precipitated by the endemic dating woes on the Harvard campus

If college students have trouble dating, it probably has a lot more to do with their being young, without much social experience, and trying to negotiate a culture different from what they're used to, than it has to do with their being smart.

Unless you actually convey femininity as a woman or masculinity as a man, you're not going to attract a suitable companion of the opposite sex.

I am laughing my butch kitty ass off here. I mean, I suppose it might be true at a gross statistical level, but I know so many people who are so far from conventionally feminine or conventionally masculine who have no trouble finding partners.

And maybe when you're really sloshed at a party and your whole frontal lobe is on vacation in the outer rings of Saturn, you've noticed that your lizard brain knows exactly how to grab that cute girl by the waist for a twirl on the dance floor. [...] Actually, just stop thinking altogether.

Telling people to find dates by getting drunk and not thinking is a great way to help them get STDs and unwanted pregnancies, too.

Generally speaking, smart people seek out other smart people to hang out with, simply because they get bored otherwise. [...] Well, congratulations -- you've just eliminated 95% of the world's population as a potential mate, Mr or Ms Smartypants.

Hey, I'm a woman over 40 and I've neither been (legally) married nor been killed by a terrorist! I must be some kind of miracle.

I care a lot that my partners are in the same general intelligence range as me, and it's very important to me that my partners appreciate me in part for my intelligence. But I've known plenty of smart people who don't care about either of those things.

Starting when I was in my teens, I was convinced that I was so odd and had such specialized requirements in a partner that I would never find a partner. Even though I have three long-term partners right now, and have been with other people who were good partners for me, on some level I still believe this. Silly, huh?

Comments

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

There is a surprisingly vitriolic flame war going on on rec.games.interactive-fiction about whether or not interactive fiction can help you get laid or not. To its credit, it has spawned one of the funniest very-very-dorky jokes that I've heard in a long time. On the other hand, the assumptions are crazy. One person's photo was linked to as a basic QED-type assertion that he could never get laid, and there are all kinds of other qualifiers put out without many people questioning them, such as that people who write interactive fiction tend to be overweight (and hence would never get a date).

[firecat]

Haven't those people on r.g.i-f ever heard of Ugol's Law?

Tangent: On my sock puppet FB account, sometimes "friends" put up profile pix that aren't really pix of them. Sometimes I see a profile picture of a fat person wearing unusual clothes. If I think it is a real profile picture, I feel happy, but then I remember it might be mockery and then I get sad.

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

... and there are all kinds of other qualifiers put out without many people questioning them, such as that people who write interactive fiction tend to be overweight (and hence would never get a date).

Since of course no fat people ever get girlfriends or wives. All the ones you see paired up are just stuffing pillows under their shirts to trick you :)

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

I was convinced that I was so odd and had such specialized requirements in a partner that I would never find a partner.

i am moderately convinced of that about myself at the moment, actually. also that i am frequently read as a lesbian (not as a dyke; i don't mind being read as a dyke) and as a butch lesbian at that. so neither butches or men think to approach me.

and then, i will die alone and the dogs will eat my corpse. [sigh]

i realize rationally that none of this is entirely true and if it is true, it won't be true forever, and i will likely end up partnered again. but i can't convince the lizard brain of that.

[firecat]

Yeah, that.

If FSM forbid I ever find myself without a partner again, I expect I will start thinking of the entire last 18 (or however many) years of my life as a fluke.

Stupid lizard brains.

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

i don't think that's the lizard brain. the lizard brain is what wants to hit people over the head and drag them off to a cave. either for sex -- or for food.

whichever part of the brain it is, it can be trained. before meeting the paramour i had the chance to experience mine finally following what i had told it for years -- that there would be somebody else, that i needn't lower my standards or change myself in any way (other than beat the negative feelings).

the negativity needs conquering. i wish i could bottle the stuff that does it, because i don't have it in sufficient supplies whenever i need it either. i just remember how it was true and then fumble through.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

I always find it interesting when articles like this tell me that I have eliminated "X percentage of of potential partners" by wanting people who are smart, or who bathe, or who don't have a history of killing their partners and burying them in the backyard.

Because having a partner who bores me stupid is such a better option than being single, I guess.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Remember: if you eliminate 99.99999999% of your potential dating pool (and you date humans who live on earth) -- you'll STILL be going crazy trying to balance six or seven relationships.

[firecat]

Been there, have a few unpleasant breakups to show for it.

[pogodragon.livejournal.com]

jeremy_m's OkCupid profile does explicitly this, starts with a list of the main reasons people would have to reject him. Seems like a sound plan to me really, there are a lot of people out there and I'm pretty sure I don't want to date more than a very small percentage of them.

And yes, I filter heavily for intelligence (not education level, though the two often go together) I'm pretty sure I'd rather be single than bored, but as I've not been single in over 10 years I could be wrong about that.

[firecat]

Hee. I really like jeremy_m's OKC profile.

[pogodragon.livejournal.com]

I just told him this - he's giggling (which may or may not be attractive, but I think it's cute)

[firecat]

I generally think it's both! :)

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

damn straight. the guy even admits that if you eliminate everyone who doesn't fit from your ever so picky list, you'll have an easy dating pool of a million people.

shit -- fat, sloppy, trans, poly, and generally weird me doesn't even have enough time for all the cool people i already know. and i am talking basic friendship, not even romance. the pool is too damn large.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Bingo! Also, hasn't this dude ever heard of the Internet? That's how the smart people are meeting up these days. Roughly a quarter of my social circle (including me) is involved with or married to someone they met in an online context -- and I don't mean online dating sites.

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

Do you know that your picture could easily be that of a 40-something Daria in a future with some mild rejuvenation tech and aircars?

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

Yes. You must engage in carnal intercourse with people you don't even remotely like, just to score points! ;-)

[usqueba.livejournal.com]

Unless you actually convey femininity as a woman or masculinity as a man, you're not going to attract a suitable companion of the opposite sex.
I really TRIED to be more femmy but I CAN'T. And? Neither my husband (16+ years) nor my boyfriend (1.6 years) CARE.

Generally speaking, smart people seek out other smart people to hang out with, simply because they get bored otherwise. [...] Well, congratulations -- you've just eliminated 95% of the world's population as a potential mate, Mr or Ms Smartypants.
Uhm, you mean you can't date other smart people?

[firecat]

But only 5% of the world's population is smart! You're limiting your options so much!

[usqueba.livejournal.com]

But 5% of the world's population is still a LOT of people!

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Eliminating 95% of my potential dating pool? I'm okay with that.

I can only really manage one primary relationship, and one secondary. That's two relationships total. There are, let's say, six billion people in the world. Might be seven billion. Dunno. Let's say six billion, for now.

Heck, let's pretend I could actually manage six relationships, like I briefly did in college once (oddly, the semester just before I flunked out. But let's not go there).

So I'm looking for 6 out of 6 billion. One in a billion. I can safely eliminate 99.99999999% of the world's population as potential mates. I mean, how many mates do I really NEED? 95%? I think most people are going to have to eliminate more than 95% of the world's population as potential mates. I mean, who can really manage 300,000,000 mates? Even King Solomon only had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

[firecat]

The original article does some of that math and winds up with the dire prediction that "less than one in five thousand people" might be suitable for you. Oh noes!

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Dayum. 1 in five thousand? That writer has some pretty damn low standards.

There's a saying: if you're one-in-a-million, there are seven other people just like you in New York.

Now, I'm in Boston, a much smaller city. So, here, there are only three or four others. Still, less than one in a million STILL gives me pretty darn good odds.

can you spare any mental floss? I've run out ...

[daze39.livejournal.com]

... and bits of the original article are now, to my annoyance, stuck in the cracks in my brain!

I mean - even aside from the "smart vs. instinctive" false dichotomy (and the underlying assumption that abandoning oneself to instinctive impulse is the only real way to make erotic connections with people), the unexamined conventionalism is just... ick!

"Or [maybe you] never bothered to cultivate your sensuality as a woman. Or your sexual aggression as a male." That's such a cookie-cutter view of intimacy!

Come to think of it, I believe my most recent heterosexual encounter was more a matter of my "sensuality" and her "sexual aggression" than the reverse. :)

Re: can you spare any mental floss? I've run out ...

[firecat]

*hands you mental floss*

That particular quote drove me crazy too.

oddly enough, exhibiting "sexual aggression" (if "I'm attracted to you" counts as aggressive) has gotten me laid more often than exhibiting "sensuality" (whatever that is supposed to be).

Re: can you spare any mental floss? I've run out ...

[wordweaverlynn.livejournal.com]

I'm both sensual and sexually aggressive. Maybe I can date myself!

Re: can you spare any mental floss? I've run out ...

[firecat]

Only if you're heterosexual...

Re: can you spare any mental floss? I've run out ...

[wordweaverlynn.livejournal.com]

Curses, foiled again.

[punkmom.livejournal.com]

Dude, I already found as many of the 1% of 1% that match or meet my smart factor as I can successfully manage. So, I'm not seeing the problem here.

Also,, which sex is opposite?

[wordweaverlynn.livejournal.com]

Unless you actually convey femininity as a woman or masculinity as a man, you're not going to attract a suitable companion of the opposite sex.

Fine by me. I do much better with unsuitable companions.

[redbird]

What they mean by "suitable" is that the person who isn't projecting that sort of gendered image won't be able to attract a companion whothe writer would consider suitable as a son-in-law or daughter-in-law. Fortunately, this is utterly irrelevant to everyone who reads this article. Even those who are currently single and heterosexual aren't going to bring potential spouses to meet the writer.

Of course, I don't appear to exist in his world, not just because I'm a smart woman with good, long-term partners, but because I don't consider "of the opposite sex" to be a relevant characteristic in actual or potential partners.

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

You make an excellent point. Now I'm wondering if the writer has grown children. In the (extremely likely) event they fall in love with somebody who doesn't meet the patriarchy-compliant standards of a respectable potential spouse, I wonder if they'll bring the person home to meet dad. Could go either way, of course.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

Thanks for reading the article and reporting on it for me, because now I don't have to spend the whole day pissed off by it!

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

Unless you actually convey femininity as a woman or masculinity as a man, you're not going to attract a suitable companion of the opposite sex.

I am laughing my butch kitty ass off here. I mean, I suppose it might be true at a gross statistical level, but I know so many people who are so far from conventionally feminine or conventionally masculine who have no trouble finding partners.

Well, it's actually true that you must "convey femininity or masculinity." What the author doesn't get is that there are a lot of ways of being feminine or masculine, beyond stereotypical cheerleaders and jocks.

And maybe when you're really sloshed at a party and your whole frontal lobe is on vacation in the outer rings of Saturn, you've noticed that your lizard brain knows exactly how to grab that cute girl by the waist for a twirl on the dance floor. [...] Actually, just stop thinking altogether.

Telling people to find dates by getting drunk and not thinking is a great way to help them get STDs and unwanted pregnancies, too.

... heartbreaks, fights, etc. ... yep.

Generally speaking, smart people seek out other smart people to hang out with, simply because they get bored otherwise. [...] Well, congratulations -- you've just eliminated 95% of the world's population as a potential mate, Mr or Ms Smartypants.

... and it's not like you could find a smart person of the opposite sex in an Ivy League College ...???

[firecat]

Well, it's actually true that you must "convey femininity or masculinity."

It is?

[jordan179.livejournal.com]

Yes, but there are lots of ways of being "feminine" or "masculine" other than the blindingly obvious ones.

[firecat]

I don't think it's true for everyone. It's probably true for a lot of heterosexual people though.

[datagoddess.livejournal.com]

Wow. I just... wow.

Thank you for sacrificing some brain cells to read that.

[queensheba.livejournal.com]

Errrr, I kinda like my women as masculine as possible, these days...

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

i have to stop reading the huffpo comment section. not much smartness evident there. though i bet they all think they are.

[redbird]

I wonder how he feels about people who limit their dating pool to, say, the fraction of a percent of the population who speak an obscure dialect of German and are part of a specific Christian church? Or athletic people near their own age who like a specific kind of music?

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

All I have to say is, this dude just put himself straight into the 95%! I wouldn't go out with somebody like him on a bet.

[stefanie-bean.livejournal.com]

Most of the "smart" people I know who have trouble finding/keeping relationships don't have these problems because they're "smart" - they have problems because they are emotionally unhappy; have unresolved emotional issues; family problems, etc.

[innerdoggie.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I'll bother to read the article, because it sounds stupid. Could it be by a stupid person envious of smart people and wanting them to feel bad? "You're ugly and weird and nobody will ever love you, nyaa, nyaa, nyaa".

I don't usually classify the world into stupid people and smart people, but in this case I'll make an exception.

[firecat]

I don't think the guy is stupid. But he seems to have only thought it out halfway because he has a bunch of assumptions I don't agree with. The primary assumption is that if you have trouble dating as a college student, you are doomed to a life of romantic failure.